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Court Of Lore
Part 2 - Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 3 - Spoiler Hot Review - (Ep. 148)
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Hold onto your rocket boots folks! Because it's time for Part two of our spoiler hot review of Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 3! With more laughs, tears, and fake-out deaths than you can shake a Groot at, this final installment of the franchise has fans raving calling it the best MCU film since Endgame, did it live up to such praise? And would we echo such a bold statement, well, you are going to have to stick around and find out.
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Welcome back to another episode of Meme on the Back on the Podcast. I'm here in the pod with my good friend Ryan Dietrich. What's up, Ryan? How are you doing?
SPEAKER_01I'm alright. Just worked a pretty long day, but you know, at least I got some bubble tea from my boss. So bubble tea from the boss.
SPEAKER_04It can't be a bad day when you get bubble tea from the boss. Well, this is part two of our spoiler hot review of Guardians of the Galaxy Volume Three. We're going to try and pick up exactly where we left off. We were pretty sure we were talking about Adam Warlock. And then we went down a huge tangent hole on what was it, media literacy. And we're going to try and come back out of it and pick up where we left off. We really enjoyed that review. That's why it was so long. Like it was just, it was just a really good conversation. So I hope you guys enjoyed it just as much as we do. If you haven't heard it yet, definitely go back and listen to part one first. Because if you start the review now, you're going to be kind of lost and probably not the best place to start a review. So let's get into it. So we left off on Adam Warlock. Let's talk about Adam Warlock. So let's start with Will Poulter. Ryan, what did you think about Will Poulter in this role? Did you think he was a good fit for it?
SPEAKER_01I'm of two minds, right? Because Will Poulter did a great job in this role, right? I think that he was funny. I think he had a great charisma. He had a great onscreen presence. But this isn't the Adam Warlock that I kind of wanted or hoped we were gonna get, right? So in a way, this version of Adam Warlock, yes, Will Poulter is amazing at it, but it's almost like it was kind of written for him in a way. You know what I mean? Sure. Yep. So I'll be interested to see how he grows moving forward in the future movies. Just to see if he sort of comes into because of course he's a he's a child essentially in intelligence in this one. So can we really fault him for not being the exact Adam Warlock we were hoping for? So there's still room to grow there.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, and I think we talked about his infantilization a little bit in the last episode. So I think we covered that part. But you know, one thing I was thinking, and this came to me sort of last night, was maybe maybe Gunn had to minimize the role and sort of manipulate the role, kind of mold the role to sort of fit the time he had available. Like if you're gonna bring Adam Warlock in and you're gonna do it with like full breadth of Adam Warlock, where you're going to 100% full send Adam Warlock, like don't you need at least like doesn't he need a much bigger part in this movie to do that? I mean so so maybe so maybe out of respect he just didn't want to do it that way. Because he knew he couldn't give up the real estate.
SPEAKER_01It's again, it's it's hard, right? Because this is I think Oh, I'm gonna make a comparison. I think Adam Warlock in this movie is the same as uh Black Panther and Civil War. Okay, I think that you know he set it up in Guardians 2 and he maybe had a lot more plans, but of course he was fired and then rehired and then hired at DC, etc. etc. So maybe he didn't um get the chance to flesh out Adam Warlock in the way that he wanted. So this was just a way to introduce him into our minds so that we know he's a character, and then they'll be able to build him up in future uh films. Because I mean, there's no way he doesn't come back, right?
SPEAKER_04So yeah, no, I agree. He's obviously coming back. He's in uh he's in the he's in the end credit scene, yep. Uh the post-credit scene. So um, or mid-credit, yeah, mid-credit scene, sorry. He's in the mid-credit scene, and clearly he's a part of the new version of the Guardians of the Galaxy. So I think that's pretty evident. But what do you think about my point? Like, don't you think that if you're gonna do Adam Warlock, why wouldn't you just carve out like wouldn't you need something a little bit more substantial for him? So maybe, so maybe the infancy thing or the or or or the infantilization of the character or sort of the dumbing down of the character was the way to introduce him, but not underserve him.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I made the comparison to T'Challa, but right in Civil War, T'Challa gets a lot of that's like a Black Panther origin story, like in itself in that movie, right? He has a very full arc. If we go by the same uh sort of strokes, Adam Warlock's little mini arc is weaker in comparison, right?
unknownOf course.
SPEAKER_01He doesn't get as much screen time, he's mostly just used as uh Superman number seven with with uh instead of laser beams, he's got uh arm beams, right? He he's sort of this just a uh uh it's an extra thing to keep tension going on the pace, right? We talked about the pace in the first episode. It's something to keep the stakes high, um, because it you show the guardians right away can't deal with him unless Nebula stabs him in the back, right? So uh it's just one of those things where he's kind of a plot device, but they're doubling it as an introduction for this character that we're gonna see going forward.
SPEAKER_04I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I also think the one thing that we need to factor in here is James Gunn knew that he would be strung up by the yard arm if he didn't put Adam Warlock in this movie. Like he teased Adam Warlock, people have been asking about Adam Warlock forever. Like I'm pretty sure he knew that if he didn't have Adam Warlock, he would I have five head idea, right?
SPEAKER_01Five head idea, five head idea, you know, like a four head idea.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01But like five head, like it's a bigger brain, sure, right? Okay. I'm just saying this is like a uh I had an epiphany as we were talking about this. There is a line in this movie where Adam Warlock's mom straight up says you broke him out of the the uh cocoon or whatever too early. Is that James Gunn saying that he was forced into be being broken? Like, is that like a tongue-in-cheek joke to the audience? I think it is.
SPEAKER_04I think it is. I think he's very I think he's astute, man. I think he's an astute guy. Also, I think he loves to serve the fans. I think he loves to to fuck with the fans. Like, look how like we talked about how many near deaths did we have in this movie? Like, how many fake death fake outs? Groot, Nebula, Rocket, Peter, like everybody got like a fake, like a fake death almost, except for Gamora. Drax got a fake death. I think he was just fucking with the fans. I think it's his last Guardians movie. It's probably his last Marvel project for the next eight to ten years. He just wanted to have some fucking fun, man. I think that's what it was.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean if there's anything that this movie is, it's kind of like even though it's sad at times, it is fun. Like there's a lot of dancing, there's good music, like yeah, it is more uh somber just from like the origin story of Rocket being the way it is. But it's very light-hearted. There's a lot of like fun moments that even even if they're yelling at each other, they still you can still tell they still care about each other. So it's sort of just one of those things where you know you can tell that he he has he, I think everybody had a lot of fun making this movie.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think so too. I definitely think it was a labor of love. It was a passion project. I don't doubt that at all. You know, I think he put his friends and his family in it. I think that's significant. But then again, it's James Gunn. And and again, I'm not a guy that faults James got James Gunn for that. He he's a guy with a certain level of work ethic, and I think when he meets somebody who can meet his level of work ethic, he's he's sort of you know, he's sort of inclined to invite that person along into any new project because he knows that they're easy to work with, yeah, and that they can work at his pace, you know. I think that's a big part of it. So okay, so let's talk about some of the other characters that we haven't talked about. We talked about Gamora a bit, so let's skip her. Um, we talked about Drax, remember in the first episode. He's a dad. So we talked about that. He's a dad. He's a dad, and I love this conclusion. Okay, let's start with Nebula. Personally, Nebula is one of my favorite MCU characters, period. I think she's I think she's amazing. I think Karen Gillen is an incredible actress. I think that you know, the latitude in which this character has moved creatively is insane. You know, she went from being a bad guy to being a guardian of the galaxy and only a bad guy because she was sort of forced into being a bad guy traumatized and an avenger, yes. And to get that, you know, that sweet little moment with Tony, Tony Stark at the beginning of Endgame. Like she got the open endgame with with with the man with Robert Downey Jr. Like that's pretty cool, you know? So I think there's a lot to be said about that. So I yeah, I really love her character. I love her new arm. I thought her new arm was amazing. I loved all the shit that it could do, like when it like had it's you know, it grew a suction cup to to to lift out that fucking skin, uh skin hole, the the the skin plug, yeah, out at uh orgo corp or whatever the fuck it is. Yeah, so what are your thoughts on Nebula?
SPEAKER_01I've always liked Nebula. I think that she was underutilized in the first one, and then she starts like in every movie after that, she's like great. She has her her arc with Gamora in the second one. This one, her arc with uh Drax learning that like not everybody needs to be what it would what did they say, competent, right? Um, everybody has their competencies in uh different things. Not everybody is competent in like smart smartness. I love the body horror in this movie with her, with everything like breaking and then going back into place. They give us a little bit of that in was it infinity war? Yeah, a little bit of it, a little bit of it, but they really went all out on this one, especially that hallway fight, which we're gonna talk about later. Um, but that's that's a great like they went through the roof. I liked her like firefly wings at the beginning too, and I'm kind of sad that they didn't keep that. Yeah, that was dope. It was so dope. Yeah, I really liked that. That was like when she was like acting like a like a I don't know, space cop. Like a sentry. Yeah, where she was like stay down. The arm is cool. It just kind of screams iron the uh bleeding edge armor mixed with uh well Mega Man 2 for sure. Um, but it it it feels like the nano suit. Uh what is it, Mark Mark 78 or whatever the hell that one was. And um it it but it looks like the things from Days of Future Past, the movie version. Okay. The centuries, right? That's what they are in that one. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01They kind of they kind of move like that. Sentinels, thank you. Yeah, the Sentinels from Days of Future Past, the movie, not the comics. It would be weird if she looked like a giant plastic like Power Ranger uh thing. Um, but no, yeah, it it was it looked very fluid, and I think she had some of the best fight scenes in this movie, to be honest.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, she had some really dope fight scenes, and when she stabs out of warlock, I was surprised by that.
SPEAKER_01What a pity. That was such a good line.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that was an early. I thought that was dope. Um, but yeah, no, I really loved I like I really loved the way that she was utilized in this story. Like she's sort of become the mother of the group, you know? And it's sort of interesting due to the fact that she pretty much hated everybody at the beginning, but now she's almost the most caring, the most just tender to to to sort like in her own way. Like she's angry, she's definitely still an angry person. She's still still processing a lot.
SPEAKER_01She was she was wearing her anger on her sleeve in this movie. Yeah, but yeah, like the moment she sees Rocket as fine, right? She kind of she immediately softens up. And I think that's such because they were the two that were left during Endgame, right? Yeah, so they spent a lot more time together than um the rest of the Guardians have. Because if you remember, Guardians one and two takes place over like a weekend, and then uh Infinity War happens. So she's actually spent five years with Rocket, so she really must love Rocket.
SPEAKER_04To see her cry was was was uh was touching. It got me a little bit. I'll tell you that right now. It got me a little bit. Um, but yeah. No, what do you think about her conclusion? What do you think about this sort of stateswoman sort of role for her? You know, the the the the leader of nowhere or the the mayor of nowhere. Like, I don't know what office it's gonna be, but you know, it seems like it's gonna be a communal, like a community, like a communal thing, like a very hippie sort of style communal thing.
SPEAKER_01What do you think? Probably um who knows if we even ever see her again or Drax because I hope we do. I hope we I hope we see Nebula. I I'm pretty sure Drax is done. Um Dave Batista's been pretty vocal about the fact that if Gun's not back, he's not back, right? Um, but I hope Nebula sticks around. I think it's I think she's she she's less like a a mayor, more like uh the sheriff that runs the town sort of thing. Yeah. Like I feel like she has that like uh small town sheriff vibe of nowhere. I well even then it because nowhere's kind of like a ship on its own, right? It's she's kind of like a pirate captain in her own right, but she just for good, I guess. Yeah, hopefully. But yeah, I I think it's fine where she ends up. I I wouldn't want to see her dead. I don't think killing her has any like if they had killed her, I don't think that would have had any plus to the story, really, other than shock value.
SPEAKER_04So I'm glad that they they they've they've kept her around and that uh she has a way to come back if we get so so with Nebula, you know I would say that she's probably the m the the she she's had the best character arc out of all the MCU characters. I think that hers is the most robust, I think hers is the most kinetic, I think that hers has the thickest sort of development lines. Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I I off the top of my head, I hers is up there for top probably top five for me. Right. Um but I don't know who my other ones are. I think I'd have to do a little bit of list making to figure it out. But yes, I I I think her arc is is great. I even as she said in this one, uh, and I was the villain or whatever, or she was the bad guy. Like it's so funny because she's come a long way to the point where even Gamora, who was we were introduced as a good person first, has been reintroduced as sort of this like savage pirate character, right? Great, yeah. Um we kind of we kind of get like a flip of it where now Gamora's the gray one and Nebula's kind of Nebula's kind of also gray, but she's at least Yeah, she's definitely a little she's still got the yin yang uh uh in her, I guess. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, I tweeted at James Gunn, I was curious whether this had always been his plan from the jump with Nebula. Like, did he always have this vision for her, this sort of you know, super arcing development angle with her? And he tweeted me back and he said, Yeah, he's like from the jump, he's like, I approached Karen Gillen. I told her exactly what I wanted to do with the character the moment I met her, and I was like, oh wow, okay. So this plan has always sort of been, you know, been the play. He's always wanted to take Nebula in this direction. So I think that's pretty cool. You know, I think that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01Karen Gillen is great in the role. Oh, Karen's amazing, dude. It's so surprising. Well, it's not surprising because you know, she's an actor and it's her job, right? But I mean, like, surprising based on you'd never expect her to be the same person as Nebula if you just saw them side by side without any context, right? So it's just one of those things where you're like, damn, you are good at this role.
SPEAKER_04It's true. She is good at that role, man. She is good at that role. So, what do you think of Teenage Groot?
SPEAKER_01Teenage Groot. Isn't this like young adult? That this felt like like college groot. Like, yeah, okay, college group. Let's say college group. Yeah, um, he's in this movie less than the other. He he gets benched for a few parts of the movie. He's driving a lot. He's driving a lot. Do you think that's because Vin Diesel is his uh That's funny? Is this honestly? They missed not a missed opportunity because this would be garbage if he wrote this into the thing. But at the end when he says I love you guys. I love my family or something. Yeah, we are family or something.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that would be awful, and I would have run out of the I Love You Guys was cute, though.
SPEAKER_01Just the way he sort of rolled off. It it didn't even sound like when uh first Groot said we are Groot, right? It sounded like it was a struggle for him, but this Groot sort of just said it. Like it was it was like seeing Chewbacca talk for a second.
SPEAKER_04Um it was done for the audience, right? James Gunn said that he wanted to feel like you know, Gamora finally could understand Groot, you know, could you know could translate what he was saying, and then he wanted the audience to have the same experience. So that's why we heard that. You know, he still said I am Groot, but we heard uh, you know, I love you guys.
SPEAKER_01That's very cute, actually. I love that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We were talking about Groot Groot Groot has some great, not comedic moments, because a lot of his comedy kind of hinges on the fact like he's kind of like used with Gomorrah to show that she's not the same Gomorra, right? Yeah, but he has some great action moments. The Groot Killed Em All moment where he pulls out every gun from his body. Like, that's a great moment. Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, that was awesome. The gunfight the the wings, the uh execution of that bald guy. Like, that's such a creative use of his because yeah, wood is used in planes to fly. It makes sense he could grow wings, right? Yep, um, loved it all around that part. I like this group more than baby Groot or uh teen group, to be honest, just because he's he's more competent, he's more there, right? He he's more of a powerhouse and a friend as opposed to like cute bait or whatever you want to call it. So sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I loved yeah, I yeah, I liked Groot in this one. I love that he was more part of the uh offensive element of you know the Guardians, you know, he was more involved in the combat this time around. Not that he hasn't been in the past, like you know, the first movie he was definitely involved. You know, we haven't seen him spear, you know, a whole assortment of guys, you know, Shish Kebab, a whole assortment of guys since Guardians of the Galaxy One, but we got to see it in this one during that hallway fight scene, which we're definitely gonna talk about. But I love seeing the glider, the wood glider, like you know, him like grow that glider, those wings out of his back to more or less save Peter and to save that guy. But I guess that was the plan, you know, from the get-go, or something that they already done in the past. But I thought that was really inventive and very neat, and it was definitely one of those moments where I thought that James Gunn was with forethought trying to find opportunities for everybody to shine, and that was Groot's opportunity to shine. But yeah, he was driving a lot too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I liked when he went Kaiju too. That was a really cool yeah. Kaiju was dope. Kaiju was funny, man. Kaiju was great, yeah. And I love I love how his tongue is flapping about, like he's that's his idea of being scary, is like his tongue wiggling around. That's funny.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that was an interesting choice. Um, so there's been some criticisms about Peter, and some felt that he was a little bit emasculated. I didn't feel that. I felt like he was being human. Yeah, I felt like he was reacting to, and I think we touched on a little bit with Dave. You know, David felt that you know, he wasn't really in agreement that that the the tactic in which he took to sort of win Gamora over was just sort of kind of you know, the same old, same old, like, you know, try something a little bit different. But I don't know, I didn't feel like he was emasculated. I felt like he was just being human. I think, like I said, you know, when we talked to Dave about it, I think that he was, you know, dealing with loss. I think he was dealing with grief. And I think when he was involved, or he, you know, his his his lack of presence during that attack with Adam Warlock, um, you know, led to Rocket being hurt. I think he I think he held himself somewhat responsible for that. So I think that also compounded on whatever was, you know, whatever whatever he was already dealing with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he's like uh he's a depressed drunk who is love sick and now feels responsible for, as he calls it, his best friend potentially dying. Right? So it's I don't think he's emasculated. I'm especially because there's when he's in he he's capable in this movie, he's just uh like not like all there, right? Like he has the capability to battle, he has the he like he's it's not like he is uh you know fumbling shots or you know I don't you know like being stupid or whatever. Like he's still capable, and even like when they're explaining why he's depressed. In the movie, um, he's still like basically nonchalantly just deactivating uh Orgor Corpse shields um while like eating a Zarg nut. So I think he's he's extremely capable. I don't think he's emasculated, he's just you know having emotions. He needs to work out, and that's his arc in the movie. I think it's a great yep. And I and I really enjoyed um obviously his arc is weaker in this one than two, but that's because two was about him mostly, so it's to be expected.
SPEAKER_04What do you think about the lack of continuity that were that's becoming quite evident in the Marvel camp? You know, we got a very different Peter Quill in Thor Love and Thunder. We got a very different Peter Quill in you know, endgame. Um, as far as his gear goes, like he still had his mask, he still had his rocket boots, uh, you know, endgame in an infinity war, he still had all that shit. But you know, he gets to, you know, he gets to volume three and he doesn't have that stuff anymore. And he's a very different guy. So what do you think about like what do you think about the continuity shift there? So do you think that the director should be more like the conversation should be a little bit more fluid and they should be more on you know, trying to get on the same page or what?
SPEAKER_01So it's one of those things where like I noticed the boot and the the jetpack and the the mask because that's like a a signature Star Lord thing. It's iconic. I love that mask, dude. The mask and the boots, like the action with the boots like whizzing around like with jetpack boots, like a jetpack gunslinger or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So having it missing in this one is kind of like it's noticeable, especially the the Peter Pool fake out, right? Like you'd expect, like he just popped the mask on and then boots out, right? But he he doesn't, and you're like, wait a minute, where are they? And then you're like, wait, he hasn't used them in the entire movie, right? But James Gunn tweeted that he was in such a rush to leave that he left them back in his apartment on nowhere, was the explanation for why.
SPEAKER_04That's a that that's an explain away, James. That's what's called an explain away, and I'm I'm not I'm not buying it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, he was now there it I'm gonna say something about James Gunn. Um that it's something that I'm not a huge fan of, but uh at the same time it has its place in the fandom um in a way that is relatively harmless overall. James Gunn does a lot of explaining in tweets for his movies that uh it doesn't ruin the movie if you don't have the information, but like it it's one of those things where like there's a lot of information left on the cutting room floor, apparently. Okay. Like he's constantly tweeting things.
SPEAKER_04A lot of it is Oh, he's documenting, yeah, he's documenting his process for yeah, he's constantly tweeting things.
SPEAKER_01To give him credit, most of it is just correcting fans who think that Groot is the same Groot, or you know, that what was the other one that was that was a big one the other day where uh I think it was he he kept saying nope, it's a different Gomorrah or something like that. Um, but people kept insisting it was the same Gomorrah. So he does a lot of fan correcting, but he also will just sort of obviously not make up stuff, but just somebody will ask him a question about the movie and he'll give an answer, right? Right. And that makes it the quote unquote definitive answer until Marvel changes it later down the line, right? Yep. So if you have that in your in your mind and then it's uh it later on it's changed, you it like it has the same feeling for those fans that uh are talking to James Gunn on Twitter that uh there's a continuity error, even though technically in the films there isn't there wouldn't be one because that would have never been in the film.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's it's it's ultimately, as I said, it's harmless, but it is something that I think it it's a thought that should the directors be so active uh to explain details of the plot to fans, um instead of either having it in the movie or leaving it up to interpretation.
SPEAKER_04Um yeah, I don't think he should be explaining everything as far as as clearly as he does. I think ambiguity is a good thing in art. I think ambiguity is what sort of fuels art in a sense. You know, people came pretty heavy for Ryan Johnson when you know they couldn't make any sense of why Snoke died, and they were like, Well, who was Snoke? You know, what was Snoke all about? And Ryan Johnson was like, your Snoke theories suck. That was his response. Because to him, Snoke was nobody, that's why he killed him. You know, I'm convinced that I'm convinced that Ryan Johnson killed Snoke because JJ Abrams created him as some sort of emperor analog, you know? And and that's because JJ Abrams is lazy. Um but yeah, so my point is, and the reason I use that example, is that I think ambiguity is good. You know, I don't think you need to explain everything. I think sometimes when you do explain everything, you may be sort of diluting the magic a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know? However, I think that there's a lot to say for a guy that interacts with his fans as much as James Gunn does. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01He puts in the work with the fans, that's for sure. Yeah. I'll never say that he doesn't love the fans, respect the fans. I don't know what you want to say, but he gets a lot of shit flung at him. And for that level of shit that we know is going to be flung at him based on how the fans can be at times, he he does a great job interacting with the fans. Uh he seems like an upstanding dude, to be honest.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, he does. And if I was him, I would have sued some motherfuckers for libel like 10 times over by now. Or is it libel or uh defamation? Yeah, defamation, libel. Um, but there's one there's written and there's verbal.
SPEAKER_01Uh, I'd have to go rewatch that um scene in Spider-Man.
SPEAKER_04Libel and there's defamation and slander. Uh huh. Isn't it slander? And we got all three. I think it's slander. Probably. Yeah. But yeah, I would uh I would definitely sued some motherfuckers for that shit, as far as what they're saying about him based on his old tweets. He's listening, he's got a weird sense of humor. He used to work for Troma. Like, those guys are weird, they do weird shit. They made a movie called Humanzy. Like, just look at the poster. It's fucking weird. Yeah. You know, not to say that I'm trying to justify his, you know, his sense of humor. It's a little odd. But he was married to Pam from the office, guys. He was married to Pam from the office. And I don't think Jenna Fisher would be okay with what people like if what people have insinuating about James is true. If that was true, I don't think Jenna Fisher would be the type of person to marry that guy.
SPEAKER_01No, he was he was just making edgy jokes. Like Yeah, like he's an edge war. To be honest, like millions of of kids and young adults during that time period did that. They just didn't have to have be didn't end up being in a job where their like likeness, right, has to be included. Yep. Right? I agree. Like the guy that was saying worse stuff than what James Gunn says, you know, may have gone on to work at a uh company and sit in a desk job where nobody knows his name, versus James Gunn goes on to become a director, so now he's in the public light, and therefore lives under a microscope. Yeah, his life is now under a microscope, even though he's just doing a job and from what I understand, he didn't do anything illegal, he just cracked a few jokes many years ago. Well, cracked a few jokes, tweeted a few jokes many years ago that and had some friends that did some fucked up shit that he's being blamed for, and that's it. Like right, and I don't those jokes, some of them um are like you can kind of see like that's just like edgy humor. Some of them hit the line. Um, I don't think they're like great jokes, but as we grow as people, I believe in change fundamentally. Um so James Gunn hasn't shown to be you know that same edgelord guy, really, um at least publicly uh that he was doing uh in the past, you know. So I believe in change, I believe in forgiveness. So if somebody has gone through the the change to to work and you know isn't the same person that they were, then yeah, I don't think they deserve that level of hate for that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and you know, for for how many redemption stories we have in nerddom, it's really weird that we have this aversion to it when it comes to the people who actually make it. It's very odd. It's very, very odd. And I don't know what the fuck is up with that, but you people need to uh move on with their lives and and uh touch some grass.
SPEAKER_01I think there needs to be a statute of limitations on tweets. Yep. You can't because like there are things that people aren't as educated on what is disrespectful and what isn't, right? Right. Uh as they are, as they were which way did I talk it? Which way did I talk it? Am I having a stroke? The hell's going on? Um you you understand what I'm saying though, right? They didn't have the same level of education back then, right? Um, and there wasn't even the same level of internet, right?
SPEAKER_04Well, the social norms weren't the same either, right? Like we're only, you know, we're all like like we try to abide by whatever social norms have been set or whatever rules have been sort of set, whatever sort of un you know, not you know, sort of, you know, the laws of civil society, you know, those laws change all the time, yeah. But they don't change, you know, but but you can't just like you know, it takes time for society to adapt to them. But anyways, it's all again, we're going down a tangible. We're going down to tangible. It's all contextual. It is all we'll see. It is contextual, absolutely contextual. So we haven't even really talked about the third act yet. And the reason I wanted to sort of single out the third act is because it was fucking awesome. Yep. One of the best third acts of any movie I've ever fucking seen in my life, and I loved every moment of it. I loved uh all the space stuff, I loved all the internal stuff, I loved the uh the monsters, uh, the ones that they uh that were eat that ate the batteries. I can't remember what those monsters are called. Do you remember what they're called?
SPEAKER_01I can't remember what the monsters are called, but I remember that Dirac's called them Armulac's batteries. Um yeah, they're the the well they were called Annulex.
SPEAKER_04Annulex.
SPEAKER_01The um yeah, they're like the squid monsters with the more uh leech face, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, with the teeth and and the tentacles and nightmare. That was a cool scene. Yep, that was a fucking cool scene. Everything was cool in that um in that act. Like I really loved everything about it. Um, I love how the Bowie split up into three ships. I was not expecting that, and how they were like locked into the side. That was really fucking dope. That was gangster. Um, I really like that, and yeah, it was just that that act was insane. Okay, so on to this fucking fight scene that everybody's talking about. So I'm of the mind that James Gunn has been just mainlining Guardians of the Galaxy video game, like the PS, the PS4 one, PS5 one for like since it came out, because all those like different fight sequences, the creative choices, the use of space, everything was like almost straight straight out of the game as far as the cooperative style of the way that the guardians were fighting. Like you had Mantis swinging off of like Groot's arm, like you had them like ducking under each other, you had Pete using his non-lethal weapons. It was that was fucking dope, dude. Like it was so good. I don't know if I would have chosen uh no fight till Brooklyn by the Beastie Boys. I think if I'm going Beastie Boys, I think I'm going Sabotage, but that's just me because it's just a little bit more uh higher paced.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it the it worked for me. Um, the the track. I I I think it had the it had a good enough energy that it went along with it. Uh, I really like the combo moves that they were doing, just like they were kind of working off of each other, and each one of them got a chance to show like why they are a guardian of the galaxy. Um the when Drax like throws the knife and pins that dude's knee into the wall, and he like falls over but can't fall down the wall because then it's like stuck in the wall, is really cool. Yeah, there's a lot of creative uses of um I guess their feet skill sets. Uh I don't want to say powers because most of them are just they're just mostly just jackasses, right? Um standing in a circle. Um, yeah, I uh it's such a great one. Uh is it a one-shot? Are there cuts? I know you've seen it twice. It's digital. I think it's completely for sure. For sure, it's digital. But I mean, like, is it a is it a one-shot, like a a one, like in an Avengers one-shot, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's a phony one shot. Yeah, it's not as good as the Daredevil one shot.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, there's definitely cuts in there, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04For sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it's still impressive, nonetheless. Um, it's great. I loved it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, no, no, it's fantastic. The coordination, you know, the stunt work. Honestly, I think it's one of the best fight sequences that wasn't like uh, you know, like some epic battle. Like out of all the like all the fight sequences we had, I would sort of put the epic battles on one side and I'd put the the more close quarters kind of shit, you know, and on another side. And I think as far as the close quarters stuff goes, or sort of like tandem or cooperative fighting, I think that this is definitely the best fight scene we've ever seen in Marvel history. Agree or disagree?
SPEAKER_01I disagree that it's the that it's the best fight scene. What do you think ranks above it?
SPEAKER_04Titan. Titan. Titan. Oh, yeah. Well, that was out. Yeah, yeah, but that's outside, but you're right. It was about the same number of people. That was a good one, too. Um, the plan that Peter came up with, I did love when he fell through the portal that Doctor Strange opened and he gave Thanos a finger after putting a bomb on him. That's a great one. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and and jumping across the the discs. That was a good one, too. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And you get you get the two Peters interacting.
SPEAKER_04True. Yeah. Yep. But yeah, no, I thought it was yeah, I just thought it was masterful. Like, and it was so it was so vivid, especially the way that Groot and Rocket were working together too. I really love that. I thought that was awesome.
SPEAKER_01I love a good Groot Rocket because they're so close, right? Yeah. They're they're friends since before the Guardians.
SPEAKER_04So yeah. What did you think of the Hellspawn? The Hell Spawn? Yeah, the little the the creatures that the high evolutionary made, the ones with like offensive capabilities.
SPEAKER_01The oh the aliens, like the gotcha, gotcha. Uh yeah, to be honest, they were kind of neither here nor there. They never they never really felt like a threat, really. Like they added to it because you know, there's the clocks ticking on getting out. This whole movie, a clock is ticking, right? So it it's more just they're used as a way to keep that clock ticking um close to the end of the movie, so that there are still stakes now that Rockets healed. But overall, visually, they they look alright, they're not offensive, but they don't stand out. Um, they weren't like a standout of the film for me.
SPEAKER_04The effects work was great on the colour. Oh, yeah, they were great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. They were whatever they uh, if whatever they were, whatever uh like mocap uh or uh fully CG. Yeah, it's great. I uh I can't tell if they were mocap or CG. I mean, obviously there are scenes where they're all CG, but I mean when they're close up.
SPEAKER_04Cool. If you had to pick one song to replace No Sleep Till Brooklyn in that sequence, what do you pick?
SPEAKER_01We are in the 90s at that point on his playlist, right? I think so. Yeah. Um, I'm kind of a huge Nirvana fan.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01So that probably a Nirvana song, maybe like about a girl or uh Smells Like Teen Spirit, something just grungy and like energy, right?
SPEAKER_04Okay. How about Rooster by Allison Chains? I haven't heard that song. You don't know that song?
SPEAKER_01No, not off the top of my head, huh?
SPEAKER_04Well, I know that Alice and Chains gets looped into the recommendation algorithm for Nirvana listeners because I see it all the time. So I'm a Nirvana fan too. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think everybody is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but it's just a great band.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they are. They are a fucking fantastic band. What can you say? You know, what can you say bad about them? There's not really a lot that you can say bad about them. So did we did we cover enough of Rocket? Like, like, are there any thoughts you had about Rocket that you wanted to add into something that we said in episode one, or do you think we pretty much covered all those bases?
SPEAKER_01Um, I mean, we talked a lot about Rocket just being the heart of this, but I want to take a second just to like talk about the moments that Rocket is given when he is finally awoken, right? Sure. You know, you you really see him be softer. He's kind of become uh less cynic about everything. You can tell that he has come cynical, thank you. Yeah. Again, I'm having a stroke. I don't know what's going on. Um it's the bubble tea. I was drugged. It's the bubble tea. Yeah, so you can see him become less cynical and really move into a position where he can be that leader in the future. Right. Uh and just the scene where he says where But he's still withdrawn.
SPEAKER_04He's still withdrawn. Like he's not like when everybody's pouring out their emotions to him about how they felt when they thought they were gonna lose him, and not he's not really responsive, or even respectfully.
SPEAKER_01I feel like before he didn't feel his feelings ever, and now he feels his feelings. Um, and that's good enough for me. I just I don't know. I feel like he he has changed in a way that that is lighter than than where he emotionally lighter than where he left off. And though the what is it, P183 or whatever, uh, and he goes, No, I am Rocket Raccoon. Such a great line. That was a dope. Such a great payoff because like all this time he's like, nah, I'm not a raccoon, right? And then he sees that he is a raccoon, and it's almost like he's accepting himself for who he is, um, and also like giving himself that name. And it's just a sick moment.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, being comfortable in his own in his own skin and and you know, understanding and accepting who he really is. And and yeah, I think that's I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_01You're right. Because before he just calls himself Rocket and he says he's a monster and a freak and stuff like that, and and or and that nobody wants him. And now he he calls himself Rocket Raccoon, like he accepts that he is who he is, um, for for his own good. And uh, I thought that was a great place to leave him and then transition him into the leader.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, I know I think so too. It was like it was an interesting choice. Like we like, you know, we gotta be honest about it. He's the really the only anthropomorphic character in all of Marvel, and he's leading one of the teams. And you know me, man, I'm pretty vocal about the lack of alien presence in Star Wars. Like, there's not enough aliens that are in high profile places, even when there are aliens, sometimes they don't even look like aliens. Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm looking at you like protagonists, Inquisitor.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah, that would yeah. Well, I don't know. That was that wasn't as bad as I thought it was as far as the the Well, he also gets he gets fridged. The character design gets fridged in the first episode or whatever. Yeah, but he does come back. He does. So spoiler spoiler alert, anyways. Um, but it is an interesting choice, don't you think, to have an an anthropomorphic character?
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, but he's like like Rocket is like the dude, right? Like he's a lot of people's favorite characters. Really? Yeah, like even okay, I I would say a like a lot of the like wider audience characters, probably like Iron Man, Captain America, etc. You know, maybe maybe a wanda stand here or there, but uh but Rocket has like a hardcore following up there with like Groot too. Well, like really I didn't know I'm I'm trying to avoid saying normie because that makes me sound weird. But right, um I I just mean like for general people that just sort of watch the movies but don't really care about the comics or the lore or anything. Yeah, Rocket and Groot are like they're like up there, they're the big moneymakers for Marvel, to be honest.
SPEAKER_04Interesting, very interesting.
SPEAKER_01They sell a lot of Groot and Rocket plushies at Disney World, I bet.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I don't doubt that, but that's because they're anthropomorphized characters. One's a tree, one's a raccoon.
SPEAKER_01And now and now Little Timmy, and now Lil Timmy wants to go see the next Guardians movie where the Rocket is primarily featured.
SPEAKER_04True, I guess. I don't know. I just I just I just find it a unique choice. That's I think he kind of has universal appeal. Like, is there anybody who hates Rocket? No, I don't think anybody hates him. I just think that yeah, you know what? I'm I'm just gonna shut up at this point because I don't have anybody here to sort of bounce these ideas off. How about clearly how about this? You're clearly in the I love Rocket camp.
SPEAKER_01I I do love Rocket, but I will say Nebula would have also been an appropriate pick for leader.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think so too.
SPEAKER_01Just like from well, they offered it to her first.
SPEAKER_04That's true, right? They did offer to her first. She turned it down and then it went to Rocket, which is interesting too. However, um, yeah, no, listen, I like Rocket. It's just he's finally sort of in a place where he's just starting to be okay with being around people. And I I just I just find the choice interesting. That's all. That's all that's totally fine. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01I totally understand it. It is it is an interesting because then if he's gonna be the biggest on the poster, that's right. Uh it's a little bit weird to have an entirely CG character.
SPEAKER_04Well how do you think he escaped the high evolutionary? Because he had him up on the ceiling using whatever powers he had, then he pressed a button on something.
SPEAKER_01What the hell was that earlier in the movie at the very beginning of the movie? He was walking on the roof, and Nebula asks him why he's on the roof, and he says he's testing his grav boots. And then later on, the high evolutionary said that after Rocket escaped, it was evident that he he needed to crank his security up and that he mastered gravity. So hence he had the anti-grav boots. Right.
SPEAKER_04Right, right.
SPEAKER_01It's very it's very convenient that he's subtle happened. It's subtle, very subtle, but it's also kind of very convenient that he has the exact thing he needs to beat the bad guy. But you know, uh absolutely it's it's a cool it's a cute moment and it shows that he's very smart uh with building his gadgets, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, I I I was I was very satisfied with that ending when he shoots when he shoots the high evolutionary. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is he alive? The high evolutionary, maybe. Who knows? I as I did it did uh we talk about how uh I said he got wanda.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he got wanded, but that's the problem. We you know, we never really talked about whether he could be alive or not.
SPEAKER_01I think they left it open based on reception.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think so too. And he's great. Yeah, like Chiwoody, yeah, he's or sorry, Chakuti Ouigi, he's he's he's fantastic. So if he wants to stick around, I'm I'm I'm good with it.
SPEAKER_01If he if he comes back for a TV show or a movie down the line as like someone else's villain, like they don't even have to have a rematch with Rocket. Like it could literally just be um another just another chance to see the character.
SPEAKER_04True that. True that the one thing we we've sort of been pushing away for the entire the entire episode was was talking about the fake out deaths at the end of the movie. I don't know about you, man, but I was audibly upset in the theater when I thought that they were gonna kill Peter Quell. Like, audibly upset when you see his face get that big, like you know, there's the midpoint where you're like, so okay, something's gonna happen. He's gonna be saved, he's not gonna die. Like, his face isn't swelling up yet. He's he's just some ice crystals, whatever. But then he gets to the point where he's literally like bloated and he looks like he's gonna goddamn explode. And you're like, fuck, they killed fucking Peter Quill. And you're just that that's your reaction. And the guy, the guy that was sitting next to me was doing exactly the same thing. Remember going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no fucking way, no, no, no, no. That's me in the theater with my best friend beside me, looking at me like I'm a fucking like a maniac. I'm just going, no, no, no, no. And it was the guy beside me, it was awful. Oh, well, yeah, you're told me about that guy. Yeah, the guy, the guy beside me kept talking to his girlfriend, you know. Like, listen, a note to anybody who likes to talk in the theater during Marvel movies. I know there's all kinds of little inside jokes, and whenever we see a character that we like, we want to talk to the person next to us, but do it after the fucking movie. Like, seriously, I'm so sick of that shit. So sick of that shit. I remember I remember one Marvel movie I went to. There was a guy, like he was, he he he was basically a black a black guy version of Captain Sweatpants from Big Bang Theory. And um he just kept laughing out loud and he would echo his like the lines, like because I just like Jesus Christ, dude. Like he just oh, he would drive me fucking insane. I just listen when you go to the movies, be considerate of the people around you. That's all I gotta say. Sorry, go ahead, Ryan. I don't even remember what I was talking about.
SPEAKER_01Oh, the guy, the guy beside me farting, or were you talking about Peter Quill? Oh no, Peter. Oh uh yeah, no, I thought he was gonna die. Uh, and then we got a recreation of the Sistine Taple um with the Adam and God finger, right?
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes, that's what it was. With the I couldn't I couldn't put together, but then it yeah, you're right. With the oh right.
SPEAKER_01Wait, another okay. In the previous episode, I said that this movie was about the music more than other. In Peter's hand is the zoom, and then Adam and and uh Peter like touch as in like a transfer of like music, as in like God, God and man is in music.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I don't know about there. I think uh you know, uh do you got a box of straws around you? Because I think you're grasping right now.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'm just saying it was prominently featured, but yeah, we did get a little weird religious.
SPEAKER_04No, I know we got a little religious allegory there. Yeah, we got some religious allegory there for sure. That's definitely there. That is definitely there, but it was yeah, but I didn't I don't know why I didn't put that. I didn't know why I didn't put I don't know why I didn't put that together, but I didn't.
SPEAKER_01Um They quickly moved away from it though. It's like a two-second pose and then like he grabs him. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04But what okay, so what was your reaction to Peter almost dying? I when you thought that he was dead, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was like, oh, he's out there for a little longer than I expected him to be, right? Right. Like I was like, I was like, okay, he's like coming to a stop after he like used the compressed air hose from the yeah from the high evolutionary ship.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, wait, shouldn't he have his boots? I guess he doesn't have them. Oh, his face is getting puffy. Somebody should probably save him soon, right? Um, and then it starts like drooping and turning purple. And I was like, I was like, am I about to watch Peter Quill explode? Like I was like, and then I was like, no way I'm about to watch Peter Quill explode in this movie. Like that's such a weird that would be such a weird choice. Um and then I remembered that Adam Warlock was there, and I was like, okay, Adam Warlock's probably gonna come in, and then he started to come again. So I was like, I wasn't completely in on the fact that Peter was dying, but like he had me there for a second. I was like, wait a minute.
SPEAKER_04Oh, he had me completely. I thought he was dead. I literally thought he was dead because I didn't think to myself that Adam Warlock was gonna be the guy to save him. He sort of, you know, he hasn't really had much of a prominent role up into this part of the act, so like, why you know what I mean? But yeah, I don't know.
unknownHuh?
SPEAKER_01I mean, it was it's it's a long scene. It's it is true. It is a long scene. Any first of all, any human would explode upon impact with the vacuum of space, but um it's he is puffy, he gets puffy for a long time, like past the point where you're like, oh my god, he's gonna be fine, right?
SPEAKER_04I get the feeling that James was punishing him for what he said before about always having a plan of escape, or always like like you know, I always have a way to get out of these these tough jams kind of thing. Like, like, like I'm like I'm paraphrasing what he said in the movie.
SPEAKER_01It was a but like a learning experience, right? He's uh he's very sure of himself and cocky.
SPEAKER_04Um yeah, and he gets knocked back by debris, yeah, like little pieces of fucking floating debris that he could probably fly around if he had his rocket boots.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's also a callback to the um scene at the end of Guardians 1, where he's floating through space. And Yondu dying too in Guardians 2.
SPEAKER_04So there's kind of a theme of he's not floating through space in Guardians 1 at the end.
SPEAKER_01Sorry, no, not the end.
SPEAKER_04The um if you let the killing at the escaping, yeah, he's escaping the kiln. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um that one.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I know. But but what I'm saying is I think that he rolled the dice too many times and James Gunn was showing him that there's consequences. You know what I mean? I think that was a part of it. I also think that it was the it was the thing that's sort of put in the back of his head that he doesn't have forever and he needs to go home and he needs to see his grandfather. Oh, I think that was the main moment that motivated that decision.
SPEAKER_01I have uh a connection here. The first time we see Peter do a spacewalk, he has his helmet and boots, right? Yep. The second time we see him going up into space, it's when Yandu has to give him um that like the spacesuit, right? In a moment of self-sacrifice as uh a father figure to his to his adopted son. Um right now Yondu is it's it's kind of symbolic of Yandu not being around to bail him out anymore. This movie, he almost dies. He doesn't have Yandu to give him that that one last push or whatever, right? So it's it is kind of like a symbolic little arc um there for Peter um and spacewalking. Uh but yeah, he he definitely realized that he was dying uh or he could have died in that he needs to stop running away from things and you know go take care of family business.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, true, true. And we talked about Kraglan and Cosmo, but one thing we didn't talk about was the cameo from Michael Rucker.
SPEAKER_01Yes. The what'd you think about that?
SPEAKER_04Luke, use the force, Luke. Use your heart, boy. Yeah, use your heart.
SPEAKER_01It was definitely that's definitely a callback to Force Ghost Obi.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What do you think? That's cute. I liked it. Uh Rucker. I love Yon, dude. Rucker's always a pleasant face. Uh yeah, Rucker's the greatest. He's so good. Even his little his little bit in the Suicide Squad is great. Uh I'm always if if he's in something, I'm always like, oh, I bet he does a good job in that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he's just a he's just a fucking fantastic actor, you know? He's just a fantastic actor. And he was in one of James's first movie. He was in Super with Rain Wilson and uh and uh Elliot uh Elliot Page.
SPEAKER_01They go back a way, way.
SPEAKER_04Um, yeah, man. Um, but yeah, that that fucking fake out death. Oh my god, it just almost destroyed me. Um yeah, so we you know we talked about the final decision, the conclusion where all the guardians ended up. Um so we've covered that part. Did you like did you like the scene with grandpa? With grandpa quil?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was funny. It was cute. It was like it was so normal, right? Right? It's not something you expect to see. Uh the the juxtaposition of the legendary outlaw, Star Lord will return, and him just sitting at the table with his grandpa eating cereal talking about mowing the lawn or whatever.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and the Kevin Bacon article on the front of the paper. Oh, I didn't even notice that. That's such a cute.
SPEAKER_01I was too focused on uh that was funny. Listening to what it was.
SPEAKER_04And uh yeah, it said Kev, yeah, Kevin Bacon tells all about his alien abduction.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's that's hilarious. I like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, isn't it? Yeah, from the Christmas thing. Yep. So let me let me toss something out that might be slightly problematic. Um, did you get a reaction in your theater when when the black woman opened the door at Peter's grandfather's house?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_04And everybody you didn't you didn't hear an audible reaction in your theater? No, it was quiet. I did. I did. It was almost like, oh, I guess he moved. That's that's what I was hearing from me.
SPEAKER_01No, I immediately booked that she was gonna be uh like a primary, like a nurse or caregiver or something. Yeah, well, I thought personally when I saw her that he was gonna be like vegged, like a vegetable. Right because he does say that you know he would be like 95 or whatever. Um, so I thought he was just gonna be too far gone to make amends. Yep. But yeah, yeah, he turns out he was fine. Well looking spray for 95.
SPEAKER_04Well, given that this is James Gunn's last project, Marvely's now moving on to DC. Is DC in good hands, Ryan?
SPEAKER_01I'd say so. I think that at the very least, the weirder projects of DC are probably going to be great. Um yeah, they're very eclectic. They're very they're very they feel very James Gunn choicey.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they feel very curious, they feel very sort of driven by his weird sensibilities. You know, he likes weird characters again. Um, this is a guy that used to work for Troma, so I think he's very at home doing stuff like creature commandos. Yeah. And I think that's gonna be the kind of stuff we're gonna see him explore. But then again, he is writing Superman too. So what the fuck, right? Like it sounds like he wants to play in all the sandboxes.
SPEAKER_01But here's here's the thing, right? If uh because he's the leader, he can always call an audible and say, you know what, I wanted to write and direct Superman or whatever, but I can only I've only written it and my talents are needed somewhere else or whatever, and he trusts, you know, the there's room for him to do things. Um I mean, famously there was the Ben Affleck thing, right? Which was uh the um where he was gonna direct and write the Batman and then uh he was only gonna direct it and then he wasn't gonna do either. Um I would say I'm cautiously optimistic about the big um tent pole films that they're gonna do, the the Batman and Superman ones. Just because especially Superman, Superman is kind of like a a solo character. I don't know if that makes sense. Where James Gunn's kind of as I've said previously, he kind of does very well with ensembles. Right. Yeah. So I just I'm cautious, I'm more cautious about the Superman film just because I don't think we've seen him like even his first DC film is The Suicide Squad, another ensemble film. Um he seems very comfortable in the ensemble film with the lesser-known characters that he can kind of make his own mark on. Um, it'll be interesting to see what he does with Superman, which is a legacy character everybody knows, uh, and he's the sole focus of the movie.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, I think that you're right. I think that he does do good in the peripheral, he does do well on the side on the uh on the margins around his characters. So I think you make a rational point, a solid point there. And uh yeah, that's pretty much what you're saying, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I'm I'm overall positive about it. I think his slate that he's shown so far is eclectic and diverse. Uh and when I say diverse, I I mean like diverse in sort of um genre and uh types of character scene. Um and you know, what's the first one coming out that's um not creature commandos is the very first?
SPEAKER_04Yep, animated project.
SPEAKER_01It's animated, okay. Yeah, it I think we I think I'll be surprised by what he has in store. Uh, and I hope I will be also blown away as much as I was I I enjoyed this movie.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Okay, Marvel's future. We gotta talk about that too. So James Gunn is gone, and I think Kevin's I think Kevin Feige's kicking himself in the ass right now. I'm not gonna lie. I think that I think that maybe some people underestimated how how much the fans were gonna love this movie and how satisfying and and how much it was really it was really set to deliver for fans, uh, especially on all the things that we've been missing out on. You know, the the quality control on this film is the smoking gun. Um I'm not trying to be funny. You were too good. Yeah, sure, with two ends. Okay, we'll be punny here. But but is the smoking gun that that's it that signals to the fan base that Marvel has been pressing its luck, they've been trying to turn around projects with tight timelines that are way too tight, resources that are way too um depleted, uh, or not enough. Like, you know, they just didn't have enough to sort of get these projects across the finish line. The only projects that have been successful in the eyes and minds of fans have been the ones that have had practical sets that have had time to, you know, finish special effects work, finish animatics, finish scripts. You know, there's been no reshoots, there's been no fuckery or any of the shit that you know has been plaguing the other Marvel projects. And I'm saying Black Camp, I'm saying Black Panther Wakanda Forever, I'm saying uh Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings, and I'm saying Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. And Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness is a close sort of it's kind of on the bubble. It's it's it's it's it's a little yeah, you know, there's some questionability with that project, but I don't think it's as bad as some of the others. So what happens to Marvel now? Because we're headed into the Marvels, and dude, it was the most hated trailer of all time, like for Marvel, the most hated trailer on YouTube. I got more dislikes, yeah. And I know that I know that you know Brie Larson is catniped to uh to misogynists. I get that, and I don't I don't disagree with the fact that she's got a lot of haters, and Miss Marvel wasn't exactly embraced widely, which I thought it should be. It was a great project, I loved it. And you know, you've got a project that the first all-female led protagonist project in all of comic book history. Uh well, actually, no birds of prey. But you know, see, that's the thing about equity and equality, though, especially in in um in fiction, you know, there is no all-male, you know, comic book movie. There just isn't. So I think a lot of people are looking at that and going, well, well, why? Like, why do we need to you know do this? I think that there's just a sort of a level of resistance to the to the entire idea. Personally, I don't care. Um, I'm interested to see where it goes. But at the end of the day, um Bree Lost, you know, Bree Larson is somebody that um I don't have a ton of respect for. So I don't know. Where do you think Marvel goes from here, dude?
SPEAKER_01I think I have to see uh Secret Invasion and the Marvel before I can say one way or the other, right? Because this movie is great, right? But how much of that is James Gunn being great and or how much of that is you know the Marvel machine finally getting back on rails? If Secret Evasion and the Marvels are, you know, CGI dumpster fires and you know the editing is chopped up and all over the place, then I'm gonna be right back to where I was, or I'm gonna be a little bit more pessimistic about how they can handle it. Um but if those pro those uh coming up projects do well, then you know we might be seeing the Marvel hitting its stride again and uh you know going back to what made them successful in the first place.
SPEAKER_04Good point. Good point. But the project is with a fairly underexperienced director, Niet Acosta, and they did another they did another gender swap on the villain. And yeah, I don't know, man. It doesn't look good, dude. It just, you know, I think it's I think they're trying to double down on too much of the stuff that's been causing them issues. Right? You can't you can't take this project and and not call it, you know, and not call out the the sociopolitical commentary that's just there, just by the casting, just by existing. Right? And Marvel is a company that does that. So it's not like it's new, it's not like it's fresh, it's not like it's something, you know, it's not some profound idea that nobody's ever brought to the screen in Hollywood, it's been overdone, right? We got a remake of the Charlie's Angels, we got Oceans 8, we had um that other one, 338 or 1338 or something, 558. I I don't I can't fucking remember at all, but we've had all these, you know, entirely female casted action action movies that have just flopped at the box office and that just have not performed well. And I don't know, man. Like, I think that Marvel's allergic to money.
SPEAKER_01I don't think they're allergic to money. I think things get lost in bureaucracy sometimes, and you know, they're gonna chase that almighty line going up, and so somebody's whoever at Marvel, I don't think it's Kevin Feige like personally. I think that he he you know recognizes uh a great deal about the climate, right? But I do think that there's probably a lot of executives and a lot of well Victoria Alonzo, right?
SPEAKER_04She was definitely the the the driving force behind this, and now she's gone. I'm pretty sure that's where she ended up, uh, you know, as far as her her whole legal issue, you know, she was promoting her, she's promoting another film while she was working with Marvel publicly, I think on like the the red carpet at Cannes or or something like that, and it got her into some shit and she got fired. So I don't know what that necessarily means, but yeah, they you know, dude, you know, there's rumors right now. There's rumors that they're fast tracking the Fantastic Four and the X-Men to try and stop the bleeding. Those are the rumors I've been hearing. I don't know if you've heard anything about that.
SPEAKER_01I haven't heard anything specifically about that, but I don't know if that's such a good idea because if they fast track it, will we have adequate reason for why you know mutants are now a thing, right?
SPEAKER_04Well, I've got a I've I've actually got a um a setup for that that I've been working on that's quite interesting. And it involves Krakoa because Krakoa is one of the best things that ever happened to the X-Men. That Jonathan. Hickman's storyline is amazing. So good. Everybody needs to read that. But yeah, no, but like seriously, you know, Victoria Alonzo's gone. Like, I think that this was her project, um, or something that she was heavily involved in. And again, man, I d I just don't think I don't know, man. It's it's gonna be interesting to say the least. Like, I want to see Miss Marvel. Like, I want to see Kamala Khan. I want to see um uh uh what's her face, the actress's name. Um Amon Velani. She's great. You know, I thought she was super charming, and I really liked her series. I thought she was great. She was like a female Peter Parker. And how can you hate somebody who has that level of curiosity for life and isn't so fucking sure in what they're doing? I those are the type of people I gravitate, you know, those are the people I gravitate towards, people that are humble. And and then you got Brie Larson's Captain Marvel. Apparently, she's had a huge attitude shift. And also, I've been hearing that she's been fighting with Teyana Paris on on set. Like, well, not like fighting, but they've been having some disagreements and they're just not getting along as well as one may think. So she's definitely on you know, her and Sam Jackson definitely probably have a code code name for her now. Uh, because that's what they do. Sam Jackson and Bree Larson apparently have little nicknames for people that they hate, so they can talk about them when they're around, which is really fucked up. And she admitted that. That was her admittance, which is which is really, really fucked up. And then the other issue with the Marvels, I don't know if you heard about this, but the guy that plays Kamala's father, he's got like a sexual like like he's in some scandal, right? Yeah, like with like underage girls and shit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but did they film that's yeah, if that's true, that's gross. Did they film this before that came out? Maybe.
SPEAKER_04Well, probably they did, but I don't think that the audience is gonna give a shit, right?
SPEAKER_01I mean, we don't do the does the greater audience even know? Like it's still not, it's not like a big Oh yeah, people are talking about it.
SPEAKER_04People are okay, fair enough.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, I don't know. I'm not I I don't know. I hope it's not true just because I thought that he was a great art. I thought he was a fantastic guy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I thought he was a fantastic guy, and I hope it's not true either.
SPEAKER_01But but if it is true, then that's gross, and then he I don't think he should be in uh such a public anything involving Disney, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Especially one marketed at little girls, right?
SPEAKER_04But then again, they sexually assaulted Thor on camera. So right. So let's give our final conclusion on Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 and let's peace out of here. Yeah, sounds good. So I again, like I said, I personally love this movie. I think it checked every box that I was looking for a Guardians Galaxy Galaxy, a Guardians of the Galaxy movie to check, and at the same time, what I was looking for for comic book movies to sort of like where, like when I think of where I want them to rebound and what I want that rebound to look like from where they were going, this is what I wanted to see, right? I didn't want to see any social, social or political proselytizing. I wanted it to be about entertainment, I wanted to be about character, I want it to be character driven, I wanted it to be uh spectacle, like high energy, just mind-blowing. And I think that James Gunn delivered on every element of that, um, on every factor. And I couldn't be happier with the project. You know, if I was gonna rate this movie, it would be really high. Out of 10, it would probably be somewhere around nine, probably around a nine, almost a 10. I almost think that this movie is perfect. You know, I think the really the only drawbacks are Adam Warlock. I, you know, I think he's underutilized, but then again, I do have some thoughts and some theories as to why he was underutilized. So I don't know what to make, you know, I don't know how to process that or synthesize that. Um, and then there's also the question of the emotional shifts in tone throughout the movie. Did they make sense? Did they not make sense? There's some choices in there that are a little bit questionable, but then again, I enjoyed the comedy. It just like this movie just kept on delivering. So, like, if it's at a 10, it's a nine. If it's if it's out of five, it's about a 4.5 out of 10. I almost think that this is a near perfect, a near perfect Marvel movie for me. And I would recommend it to goddamn everybody, and I can't wait to watch it again. It's definitely gonna be bought on Blu-ray. I'm hoping for commentary because I need a deeper dive into this movie. I need a deeper dive into what was motivating this man while he was making these creative decisions because some of them are amazing, some of them just leave a lot of questions, and um, I want answers. So go see the movie, Ryan. Go.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I would say the exact same thing. Uh, I think it's a great movie, it's a fun ride. I mean, it's not gonna you're not gonna leave the theater having changed as a human being, but I think you're gonna you'll be happier. You'll be happy, you'll be happier, you'll be having a uh having a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_04And if you've been frustrated with comic book movies as of late, you're gonna feel a lot better about them coming out. I guarantee that. That was my experience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, especially, especially anything that looks as fun as this one, I think that people will be pleased if they've been you know not feeling the the Marvel magic, that extra special seasoning on the Marvel uh burger, then they they'll they'll enjoy it. For me, yeah, uh probably same rating. Uh, I usually do out of five. So, you know, a four or a five for me. I recommend it to everybody, except for people that have uh no tolerance for uh animals, uh animal abuse. Uh but other than that, everybody.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, it's uh it's a great flick. So, guys, thank you so much again for joining us for part two of the spoiler hot review of Guardians of the Galaxy Volume Three. We love you guys. We appreciate all the support, we appreciate all the outreach on social media, the emails, uh the voice notes, everything. You guys are awesome. And you know, we've got a lot of stuff coming down the pike that we're very excited to talk to you about. We're changing the format of the show. It's gonna be more interactive for the audience in a sense. Uh, we'll be talking more about that as time passes. Probably we'll probably have some updates within the next couple weeks. And we're thinking about doing uh a couple of episodes where we're gonna go a little bit deeper into who the hosts are. So we hope you're gonna enjoy that. Um, we don't know exactly when that's gonna be, but it's gonna be at some point. And we're not back to an exact set schedule yet, but we're almost there. We're very excited that we've been this consistent up until this point. So we hope you guys are having fun with us. And be sure to check out our back catalog. We got so many other spoiler hot reviews out like every film in phase four, I'm pretty sure. Lots of DC films we've got spoiler hot reviews for. And we've got uh after shows, Watchmen, The Falcon and Winter Soldier, uh Loki, uh Wandivision, everything. So definitely go and check out that content when you get an opportunity. And if you haven't, be sure to uh drop us a review uh anywhere where you get your podcast, uh, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, uh Pod Chaser, and I think Spotify, you can leave a rating now or like a star rating or whatever. So definitely do that and tell your friends about meanwhile back on the podcast. It'll tell your it'll tell them that you know what you're talking about because you listen to our show. Tell a stranger. Yeah, tell strangers. Just go up to random people on the street and be like, hey, do you like nerd shit? Do you like podcasts?
SPEAKER_01Go to the town square and prophyletise on some people. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Don't actually be I don't condone that. I just want to make that clear.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's gonna be it for tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. To be continued. I'm Frank McGuire. I'm Ryan Dietrich. Peace. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And if you feel so inclined, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Podchaser, Stitcher, or Spotify. And as much as we appreciate the reviews, the best way to support the show is to tell your friends and family about Meanwhile back on the podcast. Hashtag spread the nerd. To stay up to date on all things meanwhile, head over to solo.to forward slash meanwhile pod. There you can sign up for our newsletter, follow us on all your favorite social media platforms, and find the newest and latest episodes, contests, and giveaways.
