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Court Of Lore
SUPERMAN: Earnest Comic Book Movie Or Savage Satire? - (Ep. 159)
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James Gunn's Superman has everyone talking - but what did we actually watch? We dive deep into the film's wild tonal shifts, that shocking Russian roulette scene, and whether evacuating an entire city in 5 minutes makes any sense. From Krypto's antics to the Justice Gang's entrance, we're breaking down everything that worked, everything that didn't, and trying to figure out if this is the Superman movie fans wanted. Spoiler warning: we're not holding back.
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What's going on, folks? Welcome back to another episode of Meanwhile Back on the Podcast. We are here to talk about Superman. This is our spoiler hot review for Superman. And uh we're gonna get into it. We're gonna talk about what we liked, what we didn't like, we're gonna talk about crypto, and we're gonna talk about the Justice Gang, and we're gonna talk about for some reason Maxwell Lord even talked about before the movie came out, was completely absent from this movie. That was kind of interesting. I was like, where's James Gunn's brother? Except this like little cameo he did like in a TV clip or something. That's what I remember. So yeah, we're gonna get into it. Uh let's start with some just general overall impressions. And I usually don't start with myself because that would be selfish. So I'm gonna start with Rich. Rich, what's going on, pal?
SPEAKER_02What's going on? What's going on? Yeah, Superman. Um, I liked it until I didn't. Uh the first two thirds of the movie I thought were really good. And then the last third of the movie I felt like it jumped the shark a bit. Um, but I thought it was colorful, I thought it was bright, I got the aesthetic that James Gunn was going for. He was definitely going for kind of this uh tribute to like the 1960s kind of golden age Superman for sure.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I picked up on that too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I I appreciated that. Um, I I liked it. Um, it was hopeful, it was jovial. Um I I'd like Superman as the guy you can hang out with, uh, which is kind of cool. Um as kind of opposed to being aloof uh above humanity. He he kind of wants to just be accepted um and be part of humanity. And so I I I appreciated that. Uh, but the last third, that that kind of final act, basically from the from the uh baseball field fight on, it was it was a little much. Um there's some good parts in there though, but I I think just the overall last third of the act was was a little rough uh after after the first I felt like it was almost like a tale of two movies. Um and if they would have just kind of stuck with whatever theme they wanted to go with in either the two-thirds or the last third, would have been fine. But it it's like they kind of he wanted to do too much, I think, and uh a little little too much dip on the chip for their James Gunn on the on the last third. But overall, I thought it was good. I mean, it's it's doing pretty good at the box office so far. It's been a couple of weeks. Uh, I was really interested to see how the box office would react the second week. Um, and it only dropped like 56%, which is normal. You know, I was expecting more of a 60-70% drop, but uh, you know, 56%, that's that's not bad. So, you know, it's it's resonating with an audience uh out there. And yeah, I mean it was it was fine. Um, I think it was a good start to the DCU. I don't think it um it just had a lot of heavy lifting to do. I I I think this Superman movie compared to the other Superman man movies, Superman movies, Superman movies, uh just it it had the burden of having to kind of relaunch a uh shared universe when we're you know 20 almost 20 years into concepts of shared universes um of six uh varying success. So it had a lot of of heavy lifting to do on its shoulders. And for the most part, I felt like it was successful. It made me excited for what's coming up in the DCU uh with the projects that we know are coming. And uh yeah, that's that's my initial thoughts before we dig in.
SPEAKER_00Okay, are there any more broad stroke perspective that you want to add to that? Or is it is it just you um no?
SPEAKER_02I I I mean, I'm I feel like if I keep talking, we're gonna start digging in a little too deep here at the beginning. Um but yeah, overall, great first two thirds, really weird last third. Um, but I didn't hate it. Uh I didn't hate it. I I don't think I was as upset as some of the collective folks on Twitter was. It's really divided. I mean, Twitter's weird, right? Uh it's it's just a divided internet on this one.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, this is the um this is the last Jedi of comic book movies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, without anyway. This this is equating to like uh uh Luke Skywalker throwing the lightsaber in the ocean.
SPEAKER_00It's it's it's that so I think that's a perfect comparison given that I think that this movie was a deconstruction, it was a satire. Like that's that's my feeling on it. Um, and you know, we'll get in more into that once we get into the weeds. I'll give you my general basic impressions.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I was disappointed. Like, that's the overall umbrella term or the umbrella characterization um or thought. Uh I was just disappointed. Um I was hoping that this movie, because of it being Superman, that it would force James Gunn to step out of his comfort zone and and do something new and to do something a little bit fresher, something with a little bit more ambition behind it. Um and I think what happened was it was supposed to be Superman presented by James Gunn, and I think it ended up being a James Gunn project or film featuring Superman, where there was so much of James Gunn in this movie, it just completely overwhelmed it. Like that was my sense. There was just too much of what James Gunn likes to do, his sensibilities, his tone, that I think really is more of an oil water, oil oil and water composition with Superman. Like it just doesn't fit. Like I feel like they're fundamentally incompatible. Um, that was my thought. And I was hoping that he would recognize it himself because I do think he's a very intelligent person. I think James Gunn is deceptively intelligent. Um, but I also think that he's enjoying his heyday of being the head of DC Studios, and I think he's just kind of swinging for the fences and he's enjoying his time while he has it. Uh he's been on an up like he's been on a real upward trajectory, right? Yep. Came off of Guardians, Guardians was huge. He's he's now got you know a new girlfriend in his life who seems fantastic, and you know what I mean? And he's got all these projects that he's doing where he's involving his friends and his family, and he's like on a real upward trajectory, and I think that's awesome for him. But I also think that he may have missed the forest for the trees as far as Superman goes. Um, so so the way that I feel like this film was constructed was James was like, Okay, I'm gonna do everything that I want to do with this movie, and then as he was putting this movie together, he's like, Oh crap, there's not really a lot of Superman in here. What do I do? Oh, I know. I'll oh like I'll I'll I'll do this last minute ad of you know patronizing and um patronizing and and just uh sort of obvious superhero and superman cliches, right? Because like there was no shortage of Superman cliches in this movie, it was just literally all the Superman cliches that everybody's like I'm not gonna say everybody, because I know there's a ton, there's a huge fan base out there that loved this movie for these very things, loved it for the cliches, loved it for the callbacks to the golden age, and that's awesome, okay? But I think uh there's a threshold that you can get to where uh the movie that you want the audience to take seriously stops taking itself seriously and moves into parody and moves into more deconstruction and more satire. And that's kind of where I felt like we went with this, particularly. And I'd say that because mostly what I said about the whole alchemy of James Gunn and Superman, but also these major tonal shifts that happened throughout the film, there was an arbitrary application of life and death. Like they decided like death is gonna be a part of this movie. Okay, cool, awesome. Life and death consequences, but we're only gonna use it when the creative team wants to use it. We're not gonna apply it evenly across the entire project. So that kind of took me out of it a bit. Um, and I really had a hard time kind of getting back into it because I because like once I get a sense that the film isn't even taking its own creative vision seriously, I just can't, I just can't participate in it anymore, you know? Like if you're gonna go for the campy cartoony comic book-y vibe, go all the way, dude. Go all the way. You know what I mean? Make it like an episode of the Justice League Unlimited. I don't care. Bring that to life, right? I'm I'm all for it.
SPEAKER_02That would be pretty cool, actually.
SPEAKER_00Right? Like, do you remember do you remember the episode of Justice League Unlimited where they went where they went into that alternate universe where there was actual comic book characters? Yeah, sorry, there's actual heroes. You remember those guys? Yeah, yeah. And it was so over the top, like over-performative, over-exaggerated, as far as the the the corniness and the cheesiness and the and and and the overperformative aspects of it, that it was just kind of like it was annoying. Like that's where I think we got to with this particular movie, is it got into the annoying camp. Um I knew that they were gonna lean into comedy with this, like, and by the way, every prediction I made about this film before it hit the theaters was right. Like, I just want to put that out there. I told you, I told you when we talked about it before, I said that clip with crypto, that full preview where we got to see him drag him to the drag him to the Fortress of Solitude. I told you that that was going to basically be the running theme throughout the film for crypto, and it was 100%. He had a couple of heroic moments here and there, but he served as animal gags and comic relief and became really annoying, by the way. Uh and I love dogs, I've trained a ton of dogs. Um, but listen, this is gonna take us well into the weed, so let's kind of like start diving deeper into this. But overall, yeah, I just kind of felt like I've just yeah, I was just disappointed. Um, I wanted more out of this film, I didn't get it. Um I wanted more out of James Gunn, I didn't get it. Uh I wanted I wanted more out of a Superman project, I didn't get it. But what can you do, man? I'm really happy that people enjoyed it and they had fun with it, you know? And that there's a, you know, like, and by the way, the people that love this movie love this movie. Yeah. Like to a disgusting degree, like almost to the point of they will attack anybody saying anything detracting from this film. I saw a number of critics get attacked with like racial stuff, misogynistic stuff, like problematic language just coming out of everywhere on Twitter for anybody who has anything negative to say about this film. Yeah, it's just crazy.
SPEAKER_02Like it's just a movie, man.
SPEAKER_00Totally crazy, bro. No, it's just a movie. Totally crazy. Totally crazy. But I also think, but I also think it's somewhat reflective or sorry, reflexive. I think what's happening is that there's this, there's this counterbalance to you know the Snyder people basically being like, hey, we want the Snyderverse back. And then there's these guys who are like, you're never getting the Snyderverse back, and they're sort of doing their victory dance now. And then when somebody kind of comes after their project to sort of be a little bit more real about what it is, they get really, really, really vicious and just really animated about it.
SPEAKER_02But anyways, yeah, I'm seeing the uh the the smart monkey typing meme just flying around the internet, dude. On on both sides. It's it's kind of complicated.
SPEAKER_00I started I started reversing it on people because I was just getting sick of fucking seeing it. Like anytime anybody came after me for a Superman review, I just used it. I just did it and I just shut shut the conversation down like no hard function.
SPEAKER_01Just a picture.
SPEAKER_00Just no, nothing. That's it. I was because because it because it cuts both ways. Yeah. Right? Like it cuts both ways. And the people that are using it and weaponizing it don't understand that it cuts both ways. You're two sides of the same fucking coin, people. I'm sorry, but you are. You're no better than the Snyder cultists if you're out there talking shit and being misogynistic and being problematic and being racist and attacking people, you're no better than that particular side of the fence. I'm sorry. But there's no moral high ground for any of you to fucking stand on like you're better than the other one. Because it it it just it's not the way that it works, it's not the way society works. Like you have to like like if you if you're if you criticize somebody for their behavior, you're holding them to a standard, right? And if your behavior gets to that same standard, guess what? You're like that fucking person. Yeah, like there's no like I don't know how like this is basic common fucking sense, right? But anyways, this is not about this is not about lamb-basting these people. This is about the review for Superman.
SPEAKER_02Everybody just needs to calm down, just calm down.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02We're not saving lives here. It's just a cart. Absolutely, it's just a movie.
SPEAKER_00Totally fucking agree, dude.
SPEAKER_02Couple of points uh that you're mentioned. It is very much a James Gunn film. I will agree with that. I mean, you could all of the all of the hallmarks that make a James Gunn film, a James Gunn film is there. Like if you didn't tell me James Gunn made this movie, I could tell you by the shots that were made. Without even knowing the needle drops that were made. You this is a James Gunn film. Um to me, it was it was a lesser guardians a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Um Guardians of Metropolis. I saw that meme and I agree with it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So you had now I like the I like what Gunn does. I I love the one-shot beach fight with Mr. Terrific. I love the needle drop at that same, yeah, at that same moment. So those those gun moments are are what I look for in a movie. It's like you know, you watch a Michael Bay film or Jerry Bruckheimer film, you look for that spinning hero shot looking up. That's that's that's what you look for in these movies. Um so I I appreciated it. I I just think that um when we got to when you were saying like lean into the camp. If you wanted to lean into the camp, you should have leaned into the camp. And I think that's what he was wanting to do with the last third of the movie, but it was just too much. Um we had a negative proton river that and then you had portals that led to a pocket dimension. It was it was just too much. And way too much.
SPEAKER_00Baby Joey, like what the fuck was that? Like oh, the green the green baby? Yeah, like what like baby Yoda? Like, dude. Yeah, that's that's merchandising, man. There was just too much to follow. There was just too much to keep track of, too much to follow. Um, like the entire Daily Planet crew go getting on the ship with Lois. Why?
SPEAKER_02Why I remember you were saying, uh, I think I think I saw it on Twitter, maybe we were talking about offline about oh, Lois can all of a sudden fly a spaceship. And they explained it away in the movie. Mr. Triffig's like Mr. Triffing's like, it's easy to fly, it's even intuitive. Like, oh, okay. It's intuitive. Yeah, somehow, somehow Palatine return, palpatine return. So it was it was just like waved away uh with with those two with those two phrases, which I was like, uh okay.
SPEAKER_00I mean they saw my tweet. No, I'm kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not I'm not Blu-ray Angel, where I think everything is about me that's set on the internet, but okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, I mean, and and your point about crypto, uh, I'm not as mad about crypto, or not mad. I don't think I'm as upset about mad about crypto. He served I'm not mad. He served what every animal not named Old Yeller serves in every movie with a dog in it. He he is the comic relief. He he played that role. Crypto filled that role that every dog fills in a movie, you know, that it's it's there to make the protagonist more relatable. Uh to you look at him with like, oh, a dog. He has a dog and he's a dog owner. And you know, it's and he's well, he's a foster dog parent, I guess I should say.
SPEAKER_00Come on, bro. Listen, I gotta push back on what you're saying about crypto just a little bit. Listen, he derailed every every intent that every character had in that film. Like Lois wanted to fly the ship, crypto clock crawled up in her lap. Like there was there was no break from that fucking dog, dude. Like he was constantly just being a nuisance. It didn't matter what it was about, he was just constantly being a nuisance. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, I mean, exactly what dogs serve in movies. Uh so I'm I'm not I'm not mad at it. Um I I am glad that later in the movie he kind of was away for a while when he when Lex captured him. I'm like, all right, he's he's gonna be gone for a bit. Let's uh let's let everybody else kind of do some stuff. Um, but I thought it was cute. He was nipping at s at Superman's ankles and and he was actually going, ow, ow, like stop. And then that that was cute. It was funny, and uh yeah, I mean, again, it was it was modeled off of James Gunn's dog, and so we wanted some significant screen time with James Gunn's dog, and and there we go. So, but you know, found family themes throughout, uh, which is exactly what James Gunn does. I do like that the movie started in Media Res, uh, that we didn't get another origin story, which was nice. A lot of reading, though, which a little annoying.
SPEAKER_00But uh, yeah, but that was kind of a little disappointing too. Like, I would like I think if you're going to do if you're going to create so much story off-screen, you gotta give a visual representation of it. There's gotta be something. Like, for instance, the way that Watchmen did it, or the way that Black Panther did it, yeah, when they were telling, like, telling those tales, you know what I mean? Like, that would have been great, you know, seeing the first metahuman, where did it come from, like some sort of establishment for that? I don't I hate when people try and just cover 3,000 years of a fucking story and then just jam it into a movie in exposition. Like it just doesn't, it just doesn't land on the audience well, you know what I mean? Yeah, like even in Shazam, like those little visuals when he was talking about the wizards and black Adam and shit, like that was that was fucking dope. Yeah, you know, yeah. So I would have appreciated a little bit more of that.
SPEAKER_02It was it was a lot like the Star Wars, you know, opening crawl of every Star Wars movie. There's there's that opening crawl, and then you're on the ship with Darth Vader. Um so it was it was more or less an exposition dump, but yeah, a Watchman opening style credits thing, kind of explaining what was going on. Exactly. Uh, which one was it? Was it uh Wolverine did it great in uh yeah or that was opening opening credits of his best part of that movie Saber to the movie fighting through different wars? Yeah, that was a really great way to explain their history, and then by the time the movie starts, you you get it, you you understand their relationship. Um so something like that would have been good. Too much reading uh for me. Um I don't like reading in in theaters, but whatever.
SPEAKER_00I don't like I don't like the reading, James Cunn. Nobody likes to read, bro. We have the antenna we have the attention span of a gnat. Exactly right. Come on, bro. Exactly right.
SPEAKER_02Wise up, wise up. But I did like the symmetry of three centuries ago, three thousand years ago, three hours ago. I did like that symmetry, so that was that was good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it would, yeah, it was it was interesting. Um okay, so let's talk about what we liked, then we can go through some scenes and stuff. So let's get into what we like. I'll go first on this one. Sure. So um Mr. Terrific was the standout, like standout completely. He like this is a Superman movie, but I feel like Mr. Terrific totally upstage Superman in this film to a ridiculous level, to the point where he was the linchpin of saving. The day in the movie.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like if he died, Superman doesn't know how to close that fucking portal. He would be dependent on Lex Luthor and his goons to do it. So the fact that you would write your titular character to not be the linchpin in a solo movie. That's uh it's a bad move, James Gunn. Gotta be honest, man.
SPEAKER_02I thought we were talking about things you liked.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know, but okay, sorry, you're right. You're right. Okay. All right. I'll try. Okay, we'll try to keep it elevated to the positive for now. We'll just do that. Okay. If I have to come back to something because of a related thing, then I'll do that. All right, that's fair. But yeah, Mr. Terrific was fantastic. Um, all of his scenes were great. Uh Edigathegis' performance was amazing. Uh, I saw some chicks drooling over him on on Twitter already after he took off his jacket. Uh so apparently he's got like he's got the ladies all stirred up, which is kind of crazy. Um loved his ship, loved his joke with Lois. That's one of my that's one of actually one of my favorite comic book movie jokes. I really enjoyed that one. I know that it's like I have a weird sense of humor. I like witty things. I don't necessarily want to be spoon-fed when the laugh. I really like that one. That's like a curb your enthusiasm joke for me. I don't know. That's kind of the way I saw it. Um, The Justice Gang turned out to be fantastic. Guy Gardner, goddamn bullseye James Gunn. Bullseye.
SPEAKER_02Like Nathan Fillion is a national treasure. We must protect him at all.
SPEAKER_00Nathan Filion hit it out of the park with the performance. James Gunn found his voice in the script, and it just got he just was just brought to life, like one-to-one. Like, so good. Like, and every Guy Gardner moment just makes Guy Gardner Guy Gardner. It's great. Like it's it's really, really well done. Really love that. The giant middle finger coming up out of the desert. Great. Um, loved it. That was just crazy. And yeah, you got to see that in previews, but to see it on the big screen was kind of nuts. I loved it.
SPEAKER_02And the nonchalant way he was dispatching him, just like waving the hand. Like, I'm not even trying, I'm barely breaking a sweat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, funny enough, I saw some Green Lantern fans getting pretty animated when they were leasing clip when they were releasing clips, and they were like, wait a second, it's connected to the standard pier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not attached to the ring. What's going on here? I saw that too. Like, well, it's kind of advanced beyond the the ring construct. Now it's these, you know, amorphous kind of come up out of nowhere type shit. Yeah. Which is which I think is better personally, because Kyle Rayner wouldn't have been able to create a Gundam. It like that's not coming out of his ring. That's too big. So come on, let's be real. Um, but um, but yeah, nailed him, nailed Guy Gardner, nailed it. It was awesome. Uh the Justice Gang overall was great, really enjoyed that. Uh, I really loved um uh Lois Lane, thought she was fantastic. Uh Rachel uh Brosnan, right? Miss Mazel Yes, Miss Mazel. She was great, she's fantastic, really brought really brought Lois to life. Uh I thought Corinne Sweat's performance was good for the writing that he had. Um yeah, I gotta say that. And um I thought Nicholas Holt's performance was good for the writing that he had. Do I agree with the characterization? We'll get into that. But uh overall, I really enjoyed that. I like that I like that they swung for the fences as far as the action uh sequences, the um the design, the creativity with it. They really kind of swung for the fences with that. Really enjoyed that. Uh, and I liked Metamorpho. I thought I thought uh What's His Face's performance was awesome. Yep. Uh Anthony Kerrigan. Yep. Yeah, Anthony Kerrigan was great, great performance. Um, and there's a lot of hot chicks, which you don't see in comic book movies these days. Like Kat Grant was hot, Lois was hot, um, Eve was hot, you know. I think James Gunn has the type.
SPEAKER_02For sure. You know, James Gunn has a great cat. Cat Grant was criminally underused. Criminally underused.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, criminally. Criminally, but yes, you know, I'm glad I'm glad in his effort to go back to the golden age, he also took us back, you know, progress, social progress 50 years as well.
SPEAKER_02Oh lord. In a good way, guys, in a good way, with with all the love in the world, he says.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, no, that was cool. That was really cool. Um, yeah, that's that I would say that's like the top. Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anything else that really stood out to me. Oh, the uh uh the T ship, the terrific ship was kind of dope. I really liked that one. Yeah, it was cool. I thought that was cool. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, what about you, Rich? What really stood out?
SPEAKER_02What did you like? Uh I I was really worried about the Justice Gang because when when I saw the previews and I I learned that the Justice Gang's gonna be in there, I was like, oh, this might be overstuffed. Like this is gonna have to be like a two and a half hour movie, three-hour movie for this to make sense. But I was pleasantly surprised and thrilled that the Justice Gang worked. Uh, I'm looking forward to seeing them again on screen. Uh Guy Gardner was my favorite. Uh, I just love Nathan Fillion. I'm just a huge fan of his, just in general. I I love the rookie, I love Castle, I love Firefly, I love all anything he's in. Uh I will probably I will watch and I will like uh at varying degrees. But uh I thought he was a cast perfect choice of Guy Gardner just getting that punchable face. Uh uh just really just embracing the uh assholishness of Guy. Um Hot Girl was great, fine. Uh Mr. Terrific was good. Uh his we talked about his wonder, his one take fight scene on the beach, probably the highlight of the movie for me, especially seeing it from the viewpoint of Lois in the force field. I thought it was really cool. Um I I do like uh I like Corn Sweat. I thought he was a great Superman. This is gonna be a defining role for him. Um his career's just gonna go up after this movie, and so you know that's that's great for him. Lois Lane was good. I thought the whole crew from uh the Daily Planet was was great. Perry White, good. Uh Jimmy's got not much to do though.
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, but we really didn't get a lot of real estate out of out of the uh out of the Daily Planet crew, except for Jimmy and Lois, really. Yeah, you know. That's true.
SPEAKER_02Didn't get a lot out of out of Perry White, couple of couple of lines, but not much. Um but yeah, Jimmy was don't call me chief. What? Like okay. Uh Jimmy was funny. Uh I I was really surprised at how much game he had, but go, Jimmy. Um yeah, I I really liked the relationship between uh Lois and Clark. I really believed that they were in a relationship. We were starting in the middle of everything, you know, we're three months in or however many months in, and I really believed that they were a couple. They they had great chemistry together. Um, the screen test, the chemistry test for them was great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'll add that to my list too. The chemistry was good. Yeah, I'll add that to my yeah, positive list.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Yep. Chemistry was really good. Um, the the kaiju fight was cute. I I liked it. The pre-kaiju looking like a coked up stitch was really fun. Uh, and then he grew, and then it was a Saturday morning cartoon fight, which was, you know, which what I it was the aesthetic aesthetic that he was going for. Um, I liked it. I thought it was really neat. He the way Superman was like trying to save the kaiju instead of killing him, and how disappointed he was when they did kill him shows the value of life that Superman has uh for all living things, good or bad. Um, yeah, uh I like that part. Uh let's see, yeah, Mr. Terfe's ship was pretty good. Um I I thought overall the CGI looked really good.
SPEAKER_00Uh, you know, because CGI's been getting a lot of flack, you know, in recent movies, but this one looks some of it, but there was some real gaps in that, in that uh in the baseball stadium fight. Like there was a lot of gaps.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll give you that one. I'll give you that one.
SPEAKER_00Oh, the engineer. That's another thing I like. I really like the engineer. I thought the engineer was kind of dope.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, engineer was good. Yeah. Uh I thought that was an interesting character uh to to have. I mean, that's uh kind of an introduction to the authority, right? I mean, the engineer's part of the authority. Uh so there, he he left little breadcrumbs for future projects without hitting you over the head with it, which was nice. Um, I do like that the end credits scene um didn't lead to anything, uh, because you kind of paint yourself in a corner if you do, right? I mean, Marvel's kind of a perfect example of that. We have Hercules at the end of Love and Thunder, and nobody's done anything with him. And then you have Harry Styles at the end of Marvel's and or the Eternals, and nobody's doing anything with him. Uh, so I do like that it was kind of detached, uh, but he left breadcrumbs in the in the sh in the movie. Guy Gardner gonna be in lanterns, looking forward to seeing how his interaction, his type of portrayal of a character is gonna be into what seems to be like a super serious lantern TV show. Um and uh you we talked about Maxwell Lorde, he's gonna play a uh what seems like a big part in the next like Justice Gang movie because uh the commercial where Peacemaker was auditioning for the Justice gang, he was in that pro in that promo. Uh so I thought that was pretty funny. So we'll yeah uh yeah, a lot of a lot of good things, a lot of good things in this movie. I the ones that love it, I see why they loved it. It was just a refreshing take on Superman, it was just joyful, and uh yeah, it was good. So those those were what I liked.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, normally we don't get a chance to talk about fan response because it's still very early when we do these reviews, but in this case, there's been quite a lot of feedback to it already, which is interesting. However, I do think that there's a lot of fans turning a blind eye to some pretty obvious flaws in this film just because they want to sort of protect it. Like there's this parasocial weird thing that happens now in our culture where like you just can't be objective, like you're so blind you can't be objective about the flaws and still like it. Like there's there are people that can parse good from bad and still love something, and then there are people that can't parse anything bad from what they think is good because for some reason they feel like they're betraying it or they're or they're doing something to harm it. Like, that's something that I see a growing trend of, and it's really kind of weird. Um, and at times I find pretty fucking disturbing, uh, if I'm being honest. Um, like for instance, like Wanda stands, like they can't even admit to themselves that Wanda committed a crime in Westview. Like, yeah, she was breaking bad, dude. Like the whole show is about her breaking bad. She's got people psychically kidnapped. That was the point of the show. It's entire point of the fucking show. Entire point of the show, but people are like, listen, she's been through some things. What like that is also true, yes, but at the same time, you gotta be objective and you gotta be fair, you gotta be able to parse the good from bad and be able to have an objective analysis of things. You can't just yeah, it it's it's it's weird, but anyways, let's get back to Superman. Um so yeah, so um what you said about the chemistry with them I think is accurate for sure, and I definitely agree with you there. However, there is a little caveat to that. Um that makeout scene, I thought they were starting a porno movie, bro. Like oh, in the kitchen? On the kitchen counter. I thought they were like it, like I thought it was the opening of a fucking porn film.
SPEAKER_02Like, I downloaded I downloaded the wrong Superman.
SPEAKER_00Like, I'm picturing my friends watching that movie with their kids and that part coming on, and just that the the the anxiety that just like grabbed them and was like, oh my god, like this is not what I wanted my kids to see. What the fuck is going on here? But that's actually gonna put about how are you gonna put a dog in a movie and then give them a make out scene? Like you put the dog in the movie, you get you you get toys with the dog to attract the kids in, and then you show them this scene. That was a little like kind of whatever you're thinking type of thing for me. But I don't know. Because like we've never had that kind of we've never had that kind of physical intimacy in a comic book movie. I don't think so. Like there's an actual sex scene in the Eternals, but it doesn't even get that heavy. You know what I mean? Like you've like you're watching Eternals, you understood, you understand that Icarus and Cersei just had sex, but it doesn't even get even close to that.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. You know what I mean? They they they did, but you didn't believe it. Like in Eternals, like it was there, but I didn't believe in the chemistry between those those two characters as much as I saw with Lois and Lois and Clark there.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. So that was that was an interesting choice, to say the least. That was an interesting choice. Um, but yeah, okay, so let's get a little bit deeper into the weeds here again. Let's talk about what exactly we didn't like.
SPEAKER_02Sure. You start? Okay, yeah. I I didn't I I already mentioned this. I didn't like the last third. Once, once I saw the typing monkeys, which when we when we talked about this in bef before the movie released, and that was rumored to be in there, I was like, oh god, please, please know. Because that that's just a bridge too far. Basically, I told you it would be. Yeah, basically from that point forward, uh, I I I was kind of it was a big shoulder shrug for me of a movie because none of that had to happen in that way. Like you could have kept this movie in the realm of the the golden age thing. He could have instead of the monkeys, he he could have used actual bots, like an actual computer program that does all this and and showed that, or or had a couple of the minions like launching these, you know, Twitter bots or or whatever. Why did it have to be super smart monkeys? That that's that's way you're you're crossing the line from golden age kind of uh nostalgia to 60, you know, Batman 66, and it's it it it was a really bad shift for me. Um what what did the falafel guy do to deserve getting shot in the head? It shook me when I saw that happen. I was like, whoa, because it was it was such whiplash from what I've seen up until that point. So basically, from that point forward, I was not a fan of the movie. Uh the negative proton river scene with the black hole and all of that. It was it it was just too much. And uh the the splitting of the earth, there there could have been different ways to to do this, and they kind of picked the most over-the-top way to do it, and I just I just did not like that. Um it just I don't know, it it was annoying to me. By the by the time we got to the end of it, I was like, oh god, thank goodness. So when when we finally finished that act and it was done, and you know, clone superman goes through the black hole, I was like, oh, thank God that's over. Because I I just I I couldn't get behind it. Um, with the the shooting of the falafel guy being the instigating event of Metamorpho finally doing something, uh, instead of his baby being held captive across the street of prison uh there not being the instigating incident for him to do something. Now that he had a Superman in his cell to be able to break out, was I'm like, no, I mean the falafel guy was great, but he shouldn't have that much uh uh sway over you finally deciding that this is gonna be what motivates me to break out of prison and save my son. It should have been saving your son been the motivating factor. Um, I felt that Nicholas Holt, I agree with you, did a good job, but I felt his Lex Luther was a little bit one note, a little one-dimensional. Um I like Gene Hackman's uh version of Lex Luther. I thought he was layered, he was um, he was kind of part tech billionaire/slash con man uh in in the Donner Superman, and he was kind of funny there. He this one he was just shouting and angry all the time. Every scene he was in, he was pissed off.
SPEAKER_00Over exaggerated, performative, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like you're not like that all the time, dude. Like show show me why you're the smartest man on the planet, besides having high-tech stuff.
SPEAKER_00Um you nailed it. You nailed it. He undermined, he undermined the mythos of Lex Luther. Yeah, that was the problem. The script, for some reason, they wrote him so cartoony and so campish that it undermined the gravitas of Lex Luthor, the brilliance, the the the the strategic mind, like all the great things about Lex Luthor that make Lex Luthor Lex Luthor just got washed away by the tone that they were trying to apply to this character. Yeah, and it just didn't land, dude.
SPEAKER_02And Holt's a great actor. I mean, I I I watch one of my favorite movies is The Menu. Uh, one of my favorite recent movies is of the menu. I'd love the menu. Yeah, and he did so well in that movie. I mean, he went from like eager fanboy of the chef to killing himself in the spoiler alert for the menu if you haven't seen it yet, to to killing himself uh after, you know, uh uh the chef whispers something in his ear, and he also, I mean, just a great range of emotion that Lex Luther is capable of. You know, we've seen it in Justice League Unlimited and the the and in Smallville, and uh so for him to just be one note pissed off all the time was just kind of like, why are you so angry, dude? Like, why are you so mad? You know, I mean Superman's been around for however many months, years that you know that he was Superman. Okay, I get you don't like the guy, you feel a little bit threatened by him because you don't know what he is or what he's what his real intentions are there for. Um, so I I get that, but I mean you're gonna have an aneurysm as as angry as you are. You know, Superman's Superman's not gonna kill you, you know, a heart attack's gonna kill you. So um that was kind of annoying to me. I I thought the reimagining of Jorel was bad. Um Jorel, yeah, when when Jorel used to be this guiding light for Clark um on Earth, turned into like go get a harem and conquer Earth. Like that didn't have to be like that either. You could Lex, this is where you you expand on the the intelligence of Lex, you make it a deep fake, which is very common in our world today. I see where Gunn was trying to uh parallel things that are going on in the real world today, deep fake that easily. You it didn't have to be the real Joriel. Now I'm like, now you're just a Viltramite. Now it and it's I I didn't like that reimagining of Jorielle at all. And it and it's sticking. So so now that's kind of what's hanging over Superman's head in future movies. Is this gonna be a Superman that you can't trust for the next however many phases? Um, this is the thing that he's gonna have to try to get over, I guess. Uh I don't know. I I didn't like because Jorel has always been the the the father figure of Clark. I mean, I I get Pa Kent is, but he always looked to Jorel as like this mythical father identity.
SPEAKER_00He's a mentor, he's a mythical mentor, yeah.
SPEAKER_02We we always romanticize, you know, the the quote unquote the absentee father. What would my father had really been like if he was in my life? And that's what Jorel kind of is. And for him to to be that and and go get a harem, like what? Like, what are we even doing here? Um so I didn't I didn't like that either. Uh, if it was if he would have played it as a deep fake and tried to convince the world that Superman is here to take over and and do all that, and then it exposed Luther for um creating this deep fake, it would have been much more believable. It would have been it would it would have fit more into the mythos of Superman and who he is, and that you know Superman is uh a person that wants to be on Earth and protect Earth and and guide Earth to be the guide humanity to be the best version of themselves, and now you're gonna question that for the rest of time, I guess.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I I agree with pretty much everything that you're saying. There's nothing I would push back on. If anything, you're echoing my own sentiments. Um yeah, the Jorel thing, Lara, and the Jorel and Lara thing was weird because it confirmed something for me too. It confirmed that James Gunn like there's this there's this story that he likes to tell. When he's talking about producing this movie, he's like, you know, I always wanted to do a Superman project, but I never really had a story for him. I really never, like, I didn't know how to go at it. I didn't know how to break the story. Like he taught, like, that's how writers talk, right? When you break a story, you figure out your way in where you can start to build everything else around it, right? You need that one idea that helps you build everything else out, right? And when he did this, I'm sitting in the theater and I say to myself, I'm like, okay. So James Gunn didn't break the story, he broke somebody else's. Like he broke somebody else's story so he could tell this story. So that in itself, it just indicates to me that maybe James Gunn wasn't the right guy to do this project, or maybe he had too much going on where he could properly serve this project. I don't know. But if you've got to break something as as uh you know admired and revered as Jorel and Lara, and the fact that they sent Cal to Earth with the best of intentions to be this now, yeah, that that fucks everything up. Plus, he still got the House of L badge on his chest. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like now you gotta do away with that too. Because now it doesn't mean hope.
SPEAKER_02Now it means oppression.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it means oppression and and and and subjugation and and uh destruction and the whole nine. Like like there's nothing good about that symbol anymore.
SPEAKER_02It's like Jorel said it's like Jorel said, go be Zod.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Totally like he went, yes, exactly. A hundred percent. It was almost like you know, it was almost like he went to the you know, to fucking Zod's school of interplanetary relations and passed this lesson down through the generations. Like that's exactly what it's like. And here's the thing had had they um had there been a moment where Clark had removed that like basically casted that symbol off and said to himself, okay, you know what? This is no longer the symbol I need to go by. I know I'm saying something very radical where we create a new Superman symbol, but I'm just saying, had he done that, there might be some actual substance to what James Gunn has done, but all he did was break the story that we all knew just so he could tell his story and give Superman an arc because he doesn't have an arc without breaking this story. Like there is no arc in this movie other than this. Is Superman like you know, Superman, Cal O, Clark, whatever, is trying to prove that he's not the person that his parents want him to be. He's not that guy, right? Yeah, which is why that big conversation happens between him and his dad on the porch. He's like, you are the sum of your actions, you are the sum of what you do and what you put out into the world, right? Which is totally accurate and I think is a great message to send to everybody. But like, dude, come on. Like this was just not the way to go with this story. It just it just wasn't the way to do it.
SPEAKER_02I mean, even at the end, he fully embraced his Kent um upbringing. So if he would have taken off that stylized S and put on a more human S, then it would have been something different. Like it would have been really cool now that I'm thinking about it. If he took off that angular S, which I thought looked cool, but if he took off that angular S and it went to the traditional, like Christopher Reeve S, uh, the the traditional Superman S, that would have been that would have been pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00The narrative justification for that would have been tough though.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like I'm I'm shedding my Kryptonian heritage based on my crazy dad. Like I don't identify with that.
SPEAKER_00So now I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna be that's actually you know what that actually might have worked if his mom was like working on like his mom hears the story, right? And she starts working right away, starts working right away, and he gets there and she's like, Listen, you know, I can see that this symbol doesn't mean what you think it means anymore. Here, you're Superman, you should have your own symbol, and it's the S, right? That could have actually worked.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and no trunks.
SPEAKER_00That could have actually worked, and no trunks, and no trunks. Give me your underoos while we're at it. Like, give me your underoos, and you can go fight crime again. Yeah, absolutely. I like that.
SPEAKER_02And then you're telling, and then you're telling the world that is the DCU, I'm I'm not what you saw on on Fox News. I'm not that guy. I am not that father's son. I am this father's son, uh without having to say anything. You know, that's yeah, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that actually could have been cool. Like that actually could have been cool. So I want to touch on what you were saying about the monkey stuff because yeah, you know, when we first started talking about super shit, you know how I felt about that. So not only did I feel like it was fundamentally incompatible with Superman because he is super intelligent, and I just don't see super intelligent people, you know, giving any sort of weight to that type of that type of trolling. Like it's just trolling. And, you know, on the other side of the coin, he's a journalist. He knows what trolling is, he knows what click farms are, he knows what bot farms are, he knows this shit. So, you know, I think that he would have the capacity to say to himself, you know what, this stuff means nothing. I'm not gonna let it bother me. But that didn't happen. He had to buy into it, he had to like make it about the whole thing. But that's the thing. That's not that's not Superman, that's James Gunn. That's James Gunn's personal experiences being overlaid onto Superman, and it doesn't fit, it's fundamentally incompatible, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, James Gunn is Superman.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I didn't say it, Rich said it. I was gonna say it, but yes, James Gunn is Superman in this movie, that's the craziest fucking thing, but he is. Um, and I've actually got like I'm working on this other YouTube video, Rich, where I'm going in-depth, like psychological analysis of everything in this film. It is a little alarming, I'm not gonna lie, because I've been talking to I've been talking to a psychologist psychologist buddy of mine, and he's been helping me break it down. And he's like, holy shit, dude, like this is a fucking treasure trove. Because, like, the other thing is going back to Laura and going back to Jorel, James Gunn has never had a really good depiction of a father in a film. Like, it's never really been a thing for him. It's always been about found family, like you know, your your your blood family has never been something that he's been reliant on in his narratives for strength or support or whatever. It's always sort of been the afterthought, you know. Um, and this is and it's definitely present in this because look what he does to you know the Kryptonian parents. But um, but yeah, sorry, I was I was on a thought about the monkeys too. Like the other thing is like what message does this send to people? Feed the trolls? Like, basically, like let's feed Superman feeds trolls. That's the message. Superman is giving away his psychic energy to trolls. That was the other thing I had a problem with. Because I don't think Superman gives a psychic energy away to trolls. That just doesn't that just that just doesn't track for me. Um but uh but yeah, is there anything else that you disagreed with that I wanted to talk about? Let me see, or or that you didn't like that I wanted to talk about. Uh the flawful guy. Holy shit, the flawful guy, that guy is in my breakdown too, the uh the bigger video I'm doing. Because here's what I think if here's what I think happened. James Gunn is a guy that monitors the internet, like NORAD monitors like missiles, okay. Like he is he's always there with the right answer if somebody starts to question a project, post a rumor, whatever, right? I think what happened is the audience got so invested in that character, because I don't know if you remember like what the messaging was about this character, but it was basically like, look, this is great. You know, we're supporting Superman now. Yeah, like Superman needs help, he needs our help, we're there for him, right? And then he kills him, he shoots him in the head, yeah. The guy from the trailer that everybody's freaking out about. I don't think that that was just circumstance, I think that was by design.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like I mean, there's a reason there's a reason why that scene is so awful. It's like in Spider-Man, if you took the guy and there's like it's shouting at Green Goblin, you come for one of us, you come for all of us, and then Green Goblin immediately throws him off a bridge. Like that would have been awful. That so exactly there's a reason why that wasn't done in Spider-Man, you know? Exactly. Because the falafel guy and the New York guy is us, it is us, and he basically kind of like shot us in the head and said, This is my movie, and I'm gonna do what I want, which is fine. That is your your movie. Um, but yeah, so I I think with the with the monkeys thing and the and the trolling and the whole social media piece, like Superman can can punch his way out of anything. He can punch his way out of any any situation, out of any problem. Public opinion is something he can't punch his way out of. So it it created a it created an interesting dynamic because what Gunn is trying to do was make Superman relatable. He was trying to make the man out of Superman. It was more man than super. And so to make Superman relatable, you know, he lets him read the comments and and and react to it in a way a human would, right? Uh we're both podcasters. I I try not to read the comments. Luckily, I haven't had any bad ones, but you know, I'll read one that's a little off, and I'm like, uh, maybe what should I do better next time? You know, that it makes me think about how I how I need to improve a little bit. I don't take it personally, but you know, so Superman trying to be relatable is like, you know, if if if you if you stick me with a kryptonite blade, do I not bleed? That's that's the message that we're trying to that we're that he was trying to portray there. Uh and that he is bothered. He he is an outcast looking for belonging. And if the entire world is against him in public opinion, how can he how can he be accepted by humanity if humanity hates him? And so that was a problem he couldn't punch his way out of. And I thought it's an I thought it was an interesting take. I didn't like that it was monkeys that did it though. That was the only thing for me. Could have made it bots, could have, could have, and it could have been straight uh legacy media doing it. It could have been uh um uh satire of like Fox News and CNN and MSNBC and all those all those legacy media things hyping up a story that wasn't true or or whatever the case is, and really kind of leaned into you know what we see today in our world when when you watch the news cycle. Um and him being a journalist would have understood that. Like this is not who I am, and all these all all of the press is is you know making me look this way, and I'm not that public opinion affects people.
SPEAKER_00I guess, but but prolonged exposure to something always creates resistance, right? Like it's the way that viruses work, like the more you know, the more that you have a certain sickness, the more you build anti like antibodies to it, right? And I think with with Superman being a journalist and Clark being a journalist, he knows that this is just par for the course in the online landscape, right? And I think this is this isn't the first time he's experienced it. I don't think it's the first time he's been around it. So that's why I kind of felt like it was fundamentally incompatible because he's already been that like like I think he's already had the experiences with it. Like, there's no way, like, listen, there's no way that he showed up in year one and people weren't posting shit about him online. Like, there's no fucking way, right? He's flying around in underwear over his pants, like he was being made fun of relentlessly. Let's be real here, dude. Right? Like, and I think that he's had the experiences and he's built that resistance to it, and I just don't see him flying off the handle the way that he was and just giving it so much real estate in his head. I just don't see that, it just doesn't track for me now. Sure, like I may be, you know, I may be wrong and maybe seeing it from an extreme, but but I don't necessarily think I am. But I can see how people can buy it. Like, you know, I can see how people can relate to it because that is the landscape that we live in today. But as I said, I think that he's had the experiences, you know. Year one, he's flying around. People gotta be posting shit about him, talking about him online. And I'm sure there was a bunch of dicks, bunch of assholes online that were like, hey, who's this asshole flying around in his underwear? Right? Like totally trashing the guy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I so I so I just don't buy it. Like it it just doesn't track for me. That's all. Um, but yeah, so I haven't had a chance to kind of get into some of uh some of the things that I didn't like about the film. So let me do that. And then um, you know, I'll pause and give you a moment to jump in uh after I kind of go through one. So the major thing for me is that the film from a technical standpoint, as far as screenwriting and filmmaking, just what I expect objectively from a good movie just wasn't there. That was the problem for me. It was subjective, like sorry, it was objectively flawed. Um, it didn't have it didn't have consistent tone, it didn't have pacing, and it had no structure. Um, I'd also say that the comedy was leaned on pretty heavily. Not that it was not that it was like a per joke ratio it or like you know, per minute per joke or whatever ratio. It was more, it was more that they kept going back to the well to the same running joke. Like for Jimmy, the same running joke for crypto, the same running joke for Hawk Girl, if you want to call that a running joke, you know, the screeching and the or the cry, the hawk cry or whatever it is, same running joke. It just felt it just felt kind of forced. It felt very forced. It felt like Tyka Watiti and the fucking goats in Thor, Love and Thunder for me. That's how it felt for me. Um and I would say that you know, James Gunn did to Superman what Tyquattiti did to Thor. That's that's that's my that's my take on this, is that that's that's kind of how I see things. Um, the other thing I would say about it is especially about the tone, there was an arbitrary application of life and death stakes. And that really threw me off. Like we talked about a couple times, the falafel guy getting executed, Russian roulette style. That really kind of set the tone to a whole other degree from what I thought the movie was, and then no citizen casualties, like no collateral citizen casualties at all throughout the movie. It just felt like he was trying too hard to appease all the people that was like in, you know, after seeing Man of Steel, we're like, oh my god, why couldn't he take Zod into space and fight him there and to save all humanity or to like keep all the humans safe? Or why couldn't Superman, you know, play play human traffic cop while he's fighting Zod and saving lives? Like it just felt felt like James Gunn went above and beyond to try and do everything that he ever read on the internet about a super what a Superman movie should be. And do I think that he did it in a in in a kind of like, okay, yeah, you guys want to see what a movie looks like with all this stuff packed into it? Okay, I'll give that to you. We'll see how it works. And I kind of think like he's a little bit. I think that, like I said at the beginning, I think that this is a satire, I think it's a deconstruction, and I think he took everything that everybody ever wanted in a Superman movie and just jammed it into the movie. Do I and I think he did it in a very tongue-in-cheek, like I'm the artist, I'm gonna show you guys exactly what you guys wanted. I'm gonna show you what it looks like. And for some reason, people aren't picking up on that. Like, I think he took he took what Ryan Johnson did with Star Wars, and he did it sorry, let me rephrase that. He did what he he he did to JJ Abrams what Brian Johnson did to Star Wars to the Superman fan base with Superman. That's that's kind of my read on the whole situation. Thoughts?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean I I don't have the the filmmaker background that you do in terms of like uh what didn't work from a technical standpoint. I I do agree that the movie shifted for me uh at at the falafel guy, and that was whiplashing. So t that tonal shift for me, I I could catch it. And if I could catch that, that had to have been way worse for you uh watching watching that happen. Um he he fridged the guy, essentially. So I that's that's what I picked up on. Um and that's really the only tonal shift I picked up on because it was so jarring. But for for me, the majority of the movie is pretty coherent up until that point. Um the the saving, the the I didn't even think about like the the collateral damage that normally would happen, I normally, in quotes, if a kaiju was rampaging through the city, right?
SPEAKER_00Um and it was we have to talk about that scene specifically, by the way. But go ahead, finish what you were saying.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so so I didn't think about like that that type of collateral damage. They did make an effort though to show that Superman was trying to keep the collateral damage to a minimum. The the kaiju leaning up against the building, he stops it from leaning against the building, saving squirrels. I know that's a big scene that everybody talks about. Um so yeah, so I I don't I don't have that much of an in-depth, like I don't I don't view the movie in that much of a critical eye. Um, I view it as like uh what did I like, what I didn't like based on what I like in movies and what I don't like in movies, and what I like in comic books and what I don't like in comic books. Um so I I do uh so I do agree with you with with some of the tonal shifts that were jarring for me uh because th those were those were heavy. Um I know we talked before about like the the arguing between Clark and Lois at the kind of the beginning of the movie didn't jive with you. Um but I I found that to be when we talked about chemistry, I felt it in that scene because that's how couples fight, right? And I get that it was a jerk, it started off as two journalists interviewing each other or a journalist interviewing Superman, but it turned into it turned into a a couple's fight, and it really made me believe more in their relationship because all Clark wanted was Lois' support of what he was doing, uh of what he thought was best in saving lives, and Lois wasn't giving it to him. Like Lois is like, Look, you you're not doing the right thing. I don't support you in this. And he's like, Well, I'm trying to save lives. How come you can't get behind me on that? And he was saying that not as a journalist, not as Superman being interviewed by Lois, but as Clark Kent, the boyfriend, being like, Why can't you support me? So um that that wasn't a tonal shift, really, that I was bothered by in that sense, but yeah, that's kind of where I'm at.
SPEAKER_00Right. So since you brought it up, let's talk about the Clark and Lois scene. Um, and I'll make this short because I want to get on to other things. But I agree with you. I I I do think it was a couples fight. I think that's ultimately what what drove him to raise his voice a hundred percent. But the part where he didn't understand what off the record meant, I'm not buying that. That was really that was just a really dumb thing to write into the that that scene. Like it was almost like we don't have enough comedy in this scene, we need something funny. What can we do? Oh, I know. Let's take the three year journalist and and uh tell everybody he doesn't understand what off the record means.
SPEAKER_02Him fumbling the recorder would have been the perfect comedic bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's fine. The comed yeah, that would have been fine. But the fact that he says that he didn't know what off the record. Record mean and they have to sit lit literally talk about what off the record means. I was like, that's dumb. That does not make any sense for two journalists to have a conversation about. But yeah, I agree with you that it was definitely a couples fight. However, I do think that it conflicts a little bit with more of a historical version of Superman where he's more stoic, more controlled, more measured, more emotionally tempered, consistent. Um and uh I found that a little bit, a little bit off-putting. Uh I found the characterization of Superman to be a little a little clumsy. Um like at the beginning of this, the at the beginning of this review, I said that there was a lot of Superman cliches, and I kind of feel like that's where a lot of the characterization was made up was with the cliches, uh, which was unfortunate. Like I just don't feel like there was like this wasn't a very dimensional Superman. There wasn't a lot of character to this particular Superman. Um, that human speech, I was laughing. Like, I like first I started laughing when Lex started going on about envy, and then I started laughing more. Like I shouldn't be laughing at the climax of the movie when the characters are burying their souls, but that's what you did to me by killing somebody via Russian roulette, and then having no life or death stakes in the movie at all. Like, I think that this was intentional. I do because to say it wasn't intentional is to say that James Gunn doesn't know what the fuck he's doing because it was so all over the place, right? Yeah the the the no casualties, the the evacuation of the city that happened within five minutes, which would never happen in a million years in any city on planet Earth. It like the whole kai like, yeah, let's talk about the kaiju thing. So a 400-foot kaiju walks into the middle of the city, fire breathing, and there are dogs and squirrels still in the vicinity around this giant 400-foot thing that's been walking around with its 400 feet of weight because I know that dogs don't have the sharpest, the sharpest vision. I know squirrels don't have the sharpest vision, but they pick up on vibrations. And if you got something 400 feet walking around, that is gonna terrify the shit out of some animals. They're not gonna be walking around it trying to figure out what it is, they're not gonna be sniffing around it. I'm sorry, right? That was very performative, very over exaggerated because they wanted to get they wanted, they wanted to contrive certain scenes, and they did away with common sense to do that, and that is something that I always take issue with. Like, if you have to do away with common sense to build a contrived scene, I'm out of it. Like, I'm just pulled out of it completely. Like, I get it, you're making a campy cartoony movie, that's awesome. But like, and yes, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief to a certain extent, but there's a threshold, dude. There's a threshold, and you made me like you took me 400 feet over the threshold. Yes, the height of the kaiju. You took me 400 feet over the threshold, and I just couldn't go with you. I'm sorry. And then you have the entire city standing around this kaiju taking photos of it. Like, ridiculous. That is so preposterous. And then the office building, people are still in the boardroom. Like, I'm sorry, but if a 400-foot kaiju comes in to a city setting, they're gonna evacuate the buildings like pretty fucking quick. They're not gonna be having a board meeting as Superman is fighting a kaiju. Like, that doesn't make any sense, man. I'm sorry, but I kind of feel free, punch back, let's go, bring it.
SPEAKER_02Well, I kind of think like the the kaiju thing, everything you're saying is an extreme version of what we see in our world today, right? You see emergencies happening, and people don't run to help, they reach in their pockets for their phone and and to record. I I think it's just a a more extreme, a bigger version of that.
SPEAKER_00Um you agree with me, it's a satire.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah. I mean, it's it's just it's just a bigger reflection of what we see in the world today. You see two people fighting out in the street, and instead of anybody jumping in and trying to stop them, 10 people are out there with their phone recording it for world star hip hop. And it's that would make it a satire. So it's a satire. Yeah. Uh so yeah, and and then one way I kind of justified it in my head too was like, okay, so at the beginning you had the crawl of this is meta humans have been on earth for a while. So kaijus, 400-foot kaijus may not be as rare of a thing as we think. And people have seen Superman for a few months and are confident that he's gonna stop him. So I'm okay to stand on the 40th floor of my building and recording because I see him stopping the kaiju hitting the building. So we're gonna be okay. Oh, the justice gang's coming, we're gonna be fine, people. Like, I live in Florida, right? Hurricanes, we're in the middle of hurricane season. Unless that thing's a category four, I'm not worried about it. So I'm I'm I'm I'm not evacuating necessarily what everybody else says. I'm like, we have hurricane parties here.
SPEAKER_00I actually like that point. No, you're right. I actually like that point. So you're saying that Superman has been fighting these things for so long. And granted, there's a follow-up scene where the Justice Gang is just fighting this amorphous blob in the middle of the city where he's putting on his fucking boots. Okay, now I understand the first image that James Gunn released. That that that was literally the tone palette for the entire film. That and crypto were the entire tone palette for the entire film. I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02So that scene where they're where they're fighting the interdimensional imp, even Lois is like, shouldn't you be out there? And it's like, no, yeah, the Justice Gang's got it. We're fine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, like it's a regular thing, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get that. Okay, that that tracks, but it is a satire because he murders somebody in the middle of his campy cartoonish comic book movie, and the guy he just happens to murder is one of the people that all the fans glommed on to in the first release of the trailer. Yeah, yep. I don't think that that is an accident, right? I don't think that that's an accident. Okay, so the next thing I want to talk about is Ultraman.
SPEAKER_02Now, I have this theory. Do you mean nuclear man from Superman 4?
SPEAKER_00Nuclear man. Don't you mean nuclear man? So I want to talk about Ultraman. So here's the thing. They gave it away that he was a clone, like at the beginning when he walks into the Fortress of Solitude. Like that was a dead giveaway. Yeah. Well, they well, actually, they gave it away in the trailers because they showed that scene in the trailers, right? So they completely gave that away. Um but here's the thing. I don't think a lot of people are picking up on this. That's James Gunn's Superman movie contending with the Superman movies that preceded it. That's what that is. Okay. 100%.
SPEAKER_02That's that's Snyder's that's a representation of Snyder's Superman.
SPEAKER_00That's I 100% believe that. Yeah, 100% believe that. Because why else and I have a feeling okay, go go with me. I'm gonna cook here. I think I think Gunn probably approached Cavill to play Ultraman.
SPEAKER_02You think?
SPEAKER_00And I think that there was a rumor, I think there was a rumor that it actually happened, but I think Cavill read through, saw like he read the fine print metaphorically, or figure, sorry, figuratively, he read the fine print, and he knew what James was trying to do with that. He knew what James was trying to do. He's like, I get it. You want me to get beat, get my ass beat by your Superman. But again, this is just a theory. This is just a theory. Um, I'm speculating wildly. This is total total conjecture. I have no proof that James Gunn sat down with Henry Cavill to talk this out, but I definitely think that there was probably an approach for this.
SPEAKER_02You know, now that you mention it, when when his mask peels away and it's like he's got long hair, he kind of looked like him for a minute. Like for a little bit. If you if you squint, it kind of looked like Cavill for about half a second.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they did not, and they did not shoot him with the mask off in a way that would give you that would let you with a hundred percent certainty believe that that was Corinne Sweat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like there was no there was no camera work done as far as close-ups or anything, or a clean close-up or anything to do that. So I definitely think that entire scene is about, and again, I think that this is a deconstruction, I think that this is a satire, and I think James Gunn was trying to say a lot with this movie, other than just what we think it is. It's not just a comic book, cartoony movie. He, you know, I think it was intentional, which I think, you know, nods to his brilliance and nods to the kind of filmmaker that he's wanted to be. Um, and I think in a way, I think in a way, he's not necessarily comfortable with being an exclusive comic book filmmaker. Like, I think he wants to do more, and I think that that necessarily, like, I think that that came across a lot in this project for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I think James Gunn was working out some stuff with I think this was I think this was a bit of therapy for him and getting some stuff off his chest and you know, mission accomplished for him, I suppose.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the fact that and the fact that Zaslav let this out of the lab maybe he didn't see it, but this is a highly personal movie, like highly personal. Like he completely erases he completely erases Superman basically to kind of to exercise his own demons in a way, you know? Yeah, um, what was the other thing I wanted to talk about? Okay, we covered we covered the zero, we covered the zero casual thing, we covered the kaiju. I I like I like your premise on the kaiju. It works for me, but I think both things can be true, right? I think that more than one thing can be true, and I think that your premise or or your your angle actually does does ring true, especially with the narrow, especially with the with the exposition dump at the end. Like that totally makes sense to me. Oh, the climax. We gotta talk about this fucking climax. Oh my god. Uh, the third act was definitely just a complete write-off.
SPEAKER_02The the white water rafting down the proton river.
SPEAKER_00It was not good.
SPEAKER_02No, it was not good, it wasn't good. It wasn't good.
SPEAKER_00Um, but where it went from there was even stranger. Um, so like I said, the citywide evacuation in five minutes was ridiculous. I think he was just either overcompensating or he was laughing in everybody's faces, thinking that you guys think that you can save people during like a battle between demigods. Because keep in mind, James Gunn liked Man of Steele. He's like he's publicly said that. So if he likes Man of Steel, I think he agrees with the idea that the collateral damage made sense, like so many other Man of Steel fans, because it does make sense. It's his first fight, you know, Zod and him were fighting across the city like two fucking gods, like that's exactly what it was, right? And Avengers, what happened to the first Avengers? All of New York City was like destroyed to the point where they had to raise money to like fix the city. Yeah, so I don't know why people take such issue with Man of Steel, but then with Avengers, with seasoned heroes and a god that's a thousand years old and a military agency backing them, they're just like, ah, that's fine. That's fine. Don't worry about it. But my point is, my point is that final act, this this is when the absurdity hit like peak levels for me. And I was convinced that this was totally just either James Gunn fucking with us or he was just going hard for the satire, and this is and and if this is a satire, and if this is a deconstruction the way that I think it is, it's actually a pretty good movie, but I don't know if it is. Like, I would need him to explain his creative process to me on this to really figure out where I stand with this film. Because if this was in like it, like if this was if this was him taking the character serious, he missed by a Great Lakes distance, in my opinion, right? Yeah, but if this was him wanting to des deconstruct the entire industry with his first project so he could start fresh, and basically just have a satire of all the different points of view and commentary and and and and viewpoints of comic book culture, this actually might be a win. Yeah, you know, yeah, because he he touches on all of it, he deals with life and death, he deals with the absurd standards of fans, he deals with the cancellation culture, he deals with fucking everything. So I don't know, but yeah, this this this climax. You lost me when Mr. Terrific zipped back up the city like a winter coat. Like if that was if this was supposed to be serious, if this was supposed to be real consequences, real stakes, that's not real stakes. Like zipping up zipping up the city like a winter coat is not real stakes. There's gotta be something more to it than just do do do do do do do do do do do do oh city's fixed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Like it should have the splitting should have stopped, and then we deal with the ramifications of what do we do with the broken world, right? How do we how do we fix that? And and you explore you explore that in future movies, similar to you know, the blip and how after yeah, after Infinity War, you know, how do you deal with you know half the population coming back in an instant, right? For better, for worse, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But he didn't kill, but the problem is he didn't kill anybody, yeah. So there's real like there's no sense of loss in this movie at all, except for the falafel guy. Oh my god, he didn't pick up on that. There's no there's no sense of loss in this film at all, except for the falafel guy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's the only overt act of violence in the entire movie.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Because like all the raptors survive, yeah, pretty much, yeah. Or did Tariff kill some of those guys?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, all the rest of it's cartoony violence. The the falafel guy is the only overt act of actual violence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, and then that Superman scene where he's like, you know, using his heat vision on everybody or on the raptors as they're surrounding him, he's spinning like a top indiscriminately, just spinning around, firing off his heat vision, and nobody takes one in the face. Like, come on, dude. Yeah, I I'm not buying that shit. So cartoony. Yeah, cartoony. Yeah, cartoony, yes. But that's the thing. Like the problem is, um, and this is why I think it's a satire. If you set, if you set a certain let sorry, if you set a certain if you establish a certain set of rules within your film, you have to follow those rules. That's where that's where the threshold is on suspending disbelief. Yeah. Is you have to follow the worlds that you set within the project or in the world that you've created, right? You gotta follow those rules. But when you're arbitrarily just sort of killing people and keeping people alive when they should be dead, based on the impact on them, the physical impact or the injuries that they've suffered, then that's when it gets into satire. That's when it gets into absurdity, that's when it gets into just pure comedy, and it doesn't really have the same the same weight anymore. Yeah, you know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and that and and and and ultimately I think that's what was lacking from this project was the dramatic weight. There was no dramatic weight to this project whatsoever. Anyways, um, I think we can wrap up here. Is there anything else you want to add? Yeah, I mean, uh, what uh oh super girl.
SPEAKER_02Let's just quickly, yeah, let's talk about supergirl. Uh I mean, I'm I'm still excited for the Supergirl movie. I yeah, not a fan of this introduction. It's so it's gonna be a completely different type of movie. We're gonna are are we gonna see Party Girl Supergirl, I guess? I don't I don't know. Or Supergirl, is is this how she deals with you know coming coming to Earth and being the same age as Clark because she's she was supposed to have come first, I think. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I don't remember the whole super girl lore, but it well for some reason for some reason comic book movies have turned into uh trauma dramas.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um Thunderbolts, trauma drama, and I think that's sort of a popular direction we're headed in. Yeah, I can definitely tell you that there was a little bit of that in Fantastic Four, not a lot of it, but there's a little bit of it. Um and yeah, Supergirl is definitely gonna be a little bit of a trauma drama. I think that you know, mental health is sort of found a found a very comfortable place in in everyday society and everyday conversation, and people want to see these themes sort of explored through media. Um I think it could be done a little bit more judiciously and a little bit more gracefully than it is being done, uh, and a little bit more sparingly. Like, I feel like we've gone through this era of uh increased representation in identity politics in film. I think we're gonna go through this era now of trauma dramas. Like, I think that's kind of where things are gonna go, but it's gonna make characters more human, which I think is kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, so that'll be interesting. But yeah, so Supergirl, um I thought it was funny and really ridiculous, ridiculous in a bad way, that Superman just finished explaining to the robots that she could only go to planets with red suns to get drunk, yeah, and then she came home drunk. Like that didn't really make sense to me because she's on a planet with a yellow sun, and he explained how their metabolism works, so that didn't really make a lot of sense. Um again, yeah, I just have like I don't I don't know what this movie is. I don't I don't know what this movie is anymore.
SPEAKER_02So based on based on what we saw in Superman, what are what are your predictions for the DCU? Like what do you what do you think tonally it's gonna be? Do you think it's gonna be more of this? Or is Gun gonna allow each filmmaker? Is is Gun gonna allow each filmmaker to set their own tone? Like Matt Reed, he they already said Matt Reeves Superman 2, I think, is done a script. They're they're finished with the script. Um you mean Batman 2? The yeah, the Batman 2 um is is is done for the script. They I I'm hearing reports that James Gunn liked it, but that's gonna be an Elseworld's tale. That's that's not DCU's Superman. So are we gonna get Brave and the Bold? Or Batman, sorry. Are we gonna get Brave and the Bold Batman? That that version of it, uh, versus uh a more darker Matt Reeves uh type of Batman. Clayface is an interesting movie to be coming out. Uh, what's that tone gonna be like?
SPEAKER_00Uh well penguin hit it out of the park as far as something more grounded, more gritty, yeah. Um, something more yeah, more more serious, something that takes itself a little bit more seriously. So I have a certain level of hope for those types of stories. I can't deal with another movie like this. I I just can't. Um I mean the audience is supposed to leave the go ahead.
SPEAKER_02No, I was gonna say I am looking forward to some projects. Like I'm I'm looking forward to seeing how they do Lobo on screen, looking forward to Peacemaker season two to come out, um, the Green Lantern series, I'm looking forward to that. I I'm just me too. I'm just interested to see totally how they're gonna be individually, and then how do they all how are they all gonna come together for the big team up movie at some point? Because if you're if they're two totally different things, if you're going super bright and super bright aesthetic for Superman, and then you go like dark, true detective lanterns, who who's gonna be up here looking at it from a 30,000 foot level to say, okay, here's how the team up movies gonna be, right? Where where do you find the balance in those tones? So I'll I'm interested to see how they work themselves out that way.
SPEAKER_00Well, see, this is where I think James Gunn is is is is missing the mark saying. That every DCU, every every DCU project is going to have its own tone is just the wrong idea. I think that they should have established a universal tone and then had the characters inform on any tonal tonal alchemy. Let's call it that, right? Like I understand that certain characters have a different voice and a different approach, but that's been handled very well in former Justice League films. Like I think that that's something that they've actually gotten quite right. Where, you know, Batman blends with Wonder Woman and The Flash, like they all get to be their individual personalities. But as far as like the overall tone of the films themselves and the stories, there needs to be something universal that holds it all together. And I just don't think that James Gunn understands that. Um, I think he's gonna learn it, but it's going to be through trial and error, and which I think is going to present some challenges, and I think is could potentially hurt the DCU as it moves forward. Um this movie missed its box office projections. Like Wall Street Journal saw it as like doing 800 million. I don't think it's even gonna make 500. They've already switched most of the theaters off to Fantastic Four.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um all the premium screens are Fantastic Four right now, like here in Canada. I can tell you that right now.
SPEAKER_01Same in the US. I was looking at tickets for this weekend.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I don't think I don't think it's even gonna hit 500. And a lot of people are already saying, like, even people that are sort of middle of the road, just DC, DC fans, no loyalty to Snyder, no loyalty to Gunn, they're just saying, like, what was it all about? Like, why did we go through all this change just to sort of kind of hit this mid mark? You know what I mean? Um, and again, if this film was intentionally a deconstruction or a satire, it's a really bad strategic move to kick off your new film universe. Like it's a really, really bad move. I mean, it has piqued.
SPEAKER_02It has piqued my interest for what the DCU is gonna bring. So I I will say that. Um because I I want to I want to see where they go from here. Um one thing that I appreciate what what Gunn was saying is that what comic book movies get wrong is they're trying to film a movie before they have a finished script. So I am appreciative that he's gonna have at least a completed script uh before they green or before they do production and before they start production on a movie. So with that being said, at least it'll be somewhat coherent. But I'm I'm gonna be interested to see how they bring it all together. I mean, there's a reason why Feige, except for very few rare instances, got directors that could fit the Marvel way, right? We gotta fit, like you're saying, this universal tone. Um But he was all but but but he was always the the the the filter at the top.
SPEAKER_00He was the quality control guy, like he was quality control guy. Yeah, he was quality control at the top. And I think because Gunn doesn't have that anymore, I think he's gone off the rails a bit.
SPEAKER_02Is gun gun's the quality control? So that's what I'm saying. It's gonna be interesting to see what what's his Batman gonna look like, right? Now that we know that Matt Reeves' Batman's not gonna be part of the DCU canon, what's Gunn's Batman gonna look like? What's Bat's uh what's Gunn's Wonder Woman gonna look like? You know, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00So well I think I I also think that we can objectively say that James Gunn's best work or most celebrated work has been under the supervision of somebody with a sense of quality control, right? I think that that's something that we can clearly say this is his first time out with his own IP, with his own franchise, and I don't think that he I don't think it's as impressive as the rest of his work. That's that's that's what I'm gonna say about that. And then the other thing is you were talking about his process of approving the script first and then going into production, right? Yep. I think that you and I would both agree, and maybe you won't, I don't know. But I think the script was the main problem with this thing. Yeah, it yeah, because we were talking about the one-dimensionalness of some of the characters, so yeah, yeah, and the tonal shifts and yeah, like you know, the fact that he wrote the yeah, it was done, but but is that gonna be our standard as we move forward, dude? Like, we're paying good money to go to the movies now. We're paying more than we ever have. We're signing up for streaming services, like they get more of our money now than they ever gotten, right? Yeah, they get more of our attention than they've ever gotten. Like, we need to get what we want out of this, and that needs to be that needs to be front and center as as as these conversations move forward. Before we sign off, I want to do something that we've never done, but I'm curious to see how this goes. All right. Both you and I have said a lot in this review, okay. You've changed my mind about a couple things, or you've made me kind of look at things a little bit differently. I want to hear from you first. Where where did I shift your perspective on this movie? And then I'll tell you where you shifted my perspective on this movie.
SPEAKER_02I think for me, um, I I liked this movie a lot more before we talked. Um, you helped so and I mean the Frank effect. And and again, I mean this with all the love in the world. You're you're making me uh look at this in a more critical way because I'm I I saw I'm more critical of the things I was critical about. Um, I was I was more willing to write this off on some things uh before you know we talked and before we met. Uh, but I think the way you break down movies has helped me understand a little bit more from the filmmaker side because I'm not that. I I don't make movies, right? I I'm not in that industry. I I don't have friends that are into that industry or anything. I'm just I'm just a dude that likes what I like. Uh but you're so you shifted my perspective on on some things in terms of that. So uh yeah, I I don't think there's anything specific I want to say you flip me on, but you're just making me look at things in a more critical way, which I appreciate.
SPEAKER_00Okay. You shifted my perspective on the kaiju fight for sure. I think that's an actual really informed and inspiring narrative lens to look at things through. Um, and you may have actually rescued that scene for James Gunn. Um because if it is a satire, then that does align with a satire in a way. Um but it also aligns with a a couple of other sort of formats and a couple of sort of other narrative styles, which is interesting. And you shifted my perspective on the Clark and Lois fight, like for sure, where it was more like I felt like after we talked, it was, you know, there's definitely there's definitely a likelihood that it was more motivated by the relationship dynamic than it was necessarily a mischaracterization because there was a lot of you know, there was a lot of fluctuation in the relationship. Like Lois says to Terrific, like, hey, I was thinking about breaking up with him. Yeah. Right. So clearly there's a little bit of shaky ground there. Um, that can't be fixed with a quick make out session, by the way. But um, but there's some shaky ground there. So so yeah, so I found that insight interesting to say the least. Um, but yeah, um, I don't know what this movie is. I don't. Um I mean, it was a good time at the theater. I had a fun two hours. It was, it was, it was, but like for me, I have to be able to make sense of what I watch, and I just can't with this. It's it's I'm gonna do my YouTube video where I do the deep dive into it. It's gonna get really, really, really like deep cuts. We're going for some serious deep cuts with this one, and it's going to probably upset a lot of people, but I hope it's gonna make them think, and I'm gonna come at it from the best place possible with the best intentions, but I just want to understand what I watched. That's all. Besides just being a movie, like what was it? Like, what were you trying to do? Like, are you an evil genius, James Gunn, or did you just shit the bed harder than Amber Heard? Like, please explain to me what happened, you know? Like, I like I need to know. Um, and I think that's why I debate what the debate about it so much online. This particular movie is because I want to I want to hear other people's perspectives to try and figure this out because I don't I don't get the blind popularity of it. I just don't, it just doesn't track for me at all. But uh but yeah, well listen, guys, thank you for listening to us uh breakdown Superman. Uh we enjoyed it. Me and Rich always enjoy connecting and talking about nerd shit and unpacking movies and you know, dissecting things. It's it's uh it's a lot of fun for us. And uh me as a filmmaker, I I just like I just like talking about movies. I like unpacking narratives and reverse engineering things. And like this is this is a Saturday night for me. I love this kind of shit. So yeah, man. Um again, thank you. Hope you come back for the next episode. I don't know what we're gonna do. Oh, we'll probably do Fantastic Four for the next episode. Yeah, I'm just right.
SPEAKER_02You're gonna go see Fantastic Four? I'm gonna try to catch it this weekend, so let's let's plan for that one for sure. I'm hearing good things. I'm excited. I'm I'm excited. I'm hearing that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was great, man. Like, like like you know, without without setting expectations too high. Um I'll just say what I already told you via text message. That way I'm not spoiling anything. But it it's definitely my favorite movie of the year so far.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's already bootlegged like clips on TikTok, and I'm just like scrolling so fast. I'm like, oh my god, these people are relentless.
SPEAKER_00So dude, put it on mute. Just just put like I don't know if TikTok has a feature where you can mute words, but um X does, and I'm and and I muted all that shit because I didn't want them to spoil anything for me. Um and it was good, it was good. I really enjoyed it. Uh, it's definitely got a couple flaws here and there. Um, but it's Matt Shackman is is uh he's legit. He's legit. Uh I hope they give him more projects. Somebody, somebody posted on Twitter Matt Shackman Spider-Man, and I'm with it. I'm with Matt Shackman and Spider-Man. Yeah. Yeah, he definitely understands character development, like he really, really gets it. Um, so yeah. Anyways, thanks for tuning in, guys. Come back for the next one to be continued. I'm Frank McGuire. I'm Rich Carrera. Thanks for watching. Peace. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And if you feel so inclined, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Podchaser, Stitcher, or Spotify. And as much as we appreciate the reviews, the best way to support the show is to tell your friends and family about Meanwhile back on the podcast. Hashtag spread the nerd. To stay up to date on all things meanwhile, head over to solo.to forward slash meanwhile pod. There you can sign up for our newsletter, follow us on all your favorite social media platforms, and find the newest and latest episodes, contests, and giveaways.